Petro Pas, fire support company commander: "If you burn first vehicle, they start to panic. They start turning around, hitting mines, exploding, burning."
Recalling the first day of Russia’s full-scale invasion, my interlocutor says that he left home at six in the morning to look for like-minded people and weapons because he had to defend Kyiv. And when the Russians were knocked out of the Kyiv region, he went to the TCR (Territorial Centre for Recruitment - ed.note) himself, because he believed he should be at the front. Since then, he has been fighting in the Svoboda (Freedom - ed. note) battalion.
Since Petro Pas is a former police officer who retired from the service just a few months before the full-scale invasion, I asked him how he felt about the fact that some police officers were afraid to defend the country on the front line and what he thought about the idea of mobilizing convicts.
Also in an interview with Censor, the commander of the fire support company of the Rubizh brigade of the National Guard, who is currently fighting in the Donetsk region, spoke about how to stop and turn around columns of enemy vehicles and what it really means to withstand the enemy's heavy fire, without which the Russians do not launch such assaults.
- Recently, there has been quite disturbing news from the frontline about the enemy's offensive in various directions and reinforcement with equipment. In addition, the media reports that Russia is preparing a mobilization after Putin's re-election. Will we be able to withstand such conditions?
- It is clear that the enemy is replenishing its forces and that they have a large human resource, and a lot of equipment from the Soviet Union remains. But we can see that while they are actively engaged in assault operations in one place, they are actively building various defenses in another. They are digging trenches and setting up dugouts. In other words, they are actively preparing for defense in other areas.
I don't think that if the enemy was planning to attack in all directions at once, he would have built defensive lines deep in his own direction. That's why we have hope. If the enemy is thinking of defending itself, it means that we understand that we will survive and then have the opportunity to take back our territories.
The enemy's tactics have recently been characterized by the fact that they are trying to semi-encircle or surround. It does not attack directly, it attacks from the flanks, tries to bypass a settlement.
- Why? Previously, on the contrary, they used to send people to attack us directly.
- For example, in the summer, they attacked a settlement we held with a lot of equipment. But then they burned all the equipment that was assaulting us directly. And now there are small infantry assaults without the support of equipment in our direction.
- Do they use drones a lot?
- Drones have become ten times more active compared to the summer period. And our main losses are from fpv drones, from drones with drops. They are developing very actively in this area.
Electronic warfare is also actively developing.
- Is it theirs or ours?
- Both. Now this war is moving to another stage. Either electronic warfare is working and no one is flying. Or everything is turned off and everyone is flying: both our drones and the orcs' drones.
- When you were working as a police officer, did you think that you would one day find yourself in a war?
- No, I didn't. But it is in the blood of every self-respecting man to serve and protect.
And in general, in this regard, it was easier for me because I was more prepared than the vast majority of citizens. So when Russia's full-scale offensive began, I did not think about whether to go or not, I understood that I had to take up arms and go to defend myself.
- What was your specialization in the police?
- In the police, I worked in the divisional inspector service.
- That is, this is not even the special forces unit that is now denying it and is afraid to go, as we recently saw with the situation in Dnipro.
- No (smiles - author). I worked as an ordinary divisional inspector for a long time, and a few months before the invasion I resigned due to years of service and went to work for municipal security. I was supposed to have a quiet life, but it didn't work out.
It all depends on the spirit of a person. We are fighting together with builders, carpenters, lawyers, people who had no military training for a full-scale war. But if a person is strong in spirit and has the desire to defend, they will be taught here. We train at training grounds, learn to use new types of weapons. And if you don't have the spirit, you won't be a soldier.
- What advice would you give to your former colleagues who lack the courage to defend the state at the front? I don't know why they don't do it: they don't want to, they're scared, the reasons may be different. But someone has to do it, it's not possible to hide out.
- I served in the police for a long time, I read the news. I'm ashamed of the police officers who, being trained and trained to use weapons, refuse to go to the front. It's hard for me to comment on anything. The only thing I can tell you is that I am waiting for all my police colleagues here very, very much. Guys, you have to overcome yourself once, put the desire to protect your family above your fear. Because everyone is afraid to go to war. Who is not afraid? There are none. So you just need to come here and restore your dignity. You are very much needed at the front.
The police are one of the most powerful reserves within the state. When I go on rotation, I see that people inside the country are calmer, more polite, understand the situation, and there is no need to keep too many police officers in the regions to keep order. Therefore, it would be good both for the police itself and for its image if some police officers were sent here to the front, where they are most needed as people who have worked with weapons and are more psychologically prepared.
- Now there are suggestions to mobilize convicts. What do you think of this? How safe is it for the people with whom they will be in the trenches?
- It is necessary to divide the convicts into categories because some received sentences for property crimes, for unintentional crimes, such as road accidents without victims. Why not take them in? But some have been convicted of violent crimes, or have been convicted multiple times, people with victim behavior, and they may continue to commit offenses. Of course, we do not need such people here. But I, for one, would be positive if they were people convicted of non-violent or unintentional crimes.
- What if they are collaborators, traitors who claim to have repented and want to atone for what they have done?
- I have a very tough attitude towards this category of people and believe that it is unacceptable for them to be here at the front. Many of our friends are dying because of such traitors and collaborators, and so it will be very difficult to stand next to someone like that. Because a person either has principles and will never betray, or they don't. And if he has already betrayed for money or because of his own beliefs, he definitely does not need to be here. It is not known how a fighter whose best comrade was killed by the same traitors will behave.
- Petro, you said that you went to the front when the full-scale war began. Where were you geographically at the time? How did it start for you?
- I was sleeping at home, like probably 90% of all Ukrainian citizens. In the morning I got a call and heard the explosion. I live near Kyiv.
- How did they react?
- I awoke my wife, ran to the store, bought the necessary things and at six o'clock I left for Kyiv to look for like-minded people and weapons. Around eleven o'clock, we found weapons and manned checkpoints as part of the VCF (Volunteer Community Formation - ed. note).
And when the orcs withdrew from Kyiv, I went to the TCR. I said: I definitely need to be at the front. I didn't agree to join any brigade, I thought wherever fate would take me, I would be most needed there.
The TCR sent me to a training center, and from there I was sent abroad to learn how to work with anti-tank weapons. Upon my return, they kept me as an instructor. I was an instructor for a few months and started looking for a way to get to the front. I was offered several options. But I ended up in the Svoboda battalion. At first, I was in reconnaissance, then I became the commander of an anti-tank platoon. And after the summer rotation, I became the commander of a fire support company.
- Before joining the law enforcement agencies, did you serve compulsory military service? They don't hire you without it.
- Yes, I was an APC driver in the 72nd Brigade. We were firing " Grads" back then.
- Didn't you have any combat experience? Didn't you go on rotations to the east after 2014?
- No, I didn't.
- When the full-scale offensive began, it was very disturbing in Kyiv. I remember driving through one of the checkpoints in the first week and noticing how nervous people were. That's why we opened all the windows at the entrance, took out our documents so that people would react to us more calmly. How did you manage to distinguish normal people from possible subversives in the early days?
- Generally speaking, the situation in Kyiv in the first weeks was most affected by panic, fueled by various rumors. We didn't see any subversives, only, as you say, nervous people who were worried that subversives would come running from somewhere and start shooting.
In general, panic is the worst enemy in war. If a soldier does not panic in the most critical situation, he alone can check an enemy platoon. If a soldier panics, or even worse, a commander panics, it can lead to very heavy losses.
- Listen, we all like to write about stress resistance in our resumes, but it's just a pretty word. How do you not panic in combat conditions, especially if you know that the enemy forces are superior?
- Let me tell you what helped me personally. When I served in the police, we had a course on stress resistance during our advanced training. A cyborg (Ukrainian servicemen who participated in the defense of Donetsk International Airport during the war in eastern Ukraine (26 May 2014 – 22 January 2015) - ed. note) came to us. He stayed at the Donetsk airport all the time until he left and told us exactly how he managed to control himself during heavy fighting. What was most useful to me in the police? This course.
I realized that war is very scary, but fear is a normal reaction of the body to a particular challenge. You just need to learn how to get through this fear, control your movements, your thoughts, and tame your panic. And you will succeed.
I think that nowadays it is fear that holds police officers back the most. They are worried that if they go to the front, they will panic, they will not be able to hold weapons, they will not be able to fight.
If the entire police force is given courses on stress resistance, told how to behave in combat conditions, and trained with weapons and range firing, there will be many more of them willing to join assault brigades.
- Isn't the cyborg's name Kyrylo Nedria?
- Yes, it is.
- He's really cool. His advice also helped me during the full-scale invasion.
- When he talked about combat conditions, we didn't think we would ever need it, that there would be a large-scale war. But it turned out that we needed it in real combat conditions.
- Two years ago, many did not believe that there could be an offensive, just as now they do not believe that the Russians can advance further from the front line that is already there. Therefore, some of the men expect that the issue of service will somehow be avoided. They will stay a little further from the front, and others will fight for them. Do you think that it will not evade those who are sitting somewhere deep in the rear?
- I think not. Because the enemy is also studying the internal situation in our country. He looks at all the polls, at the attitude of the population. And it is these manifestations of people's weakness that, in my opinion, can be interpreted by the enemy as a sign that it will be possible to seize even more territory. If all the men in Ukraine had taken up arms from the first days of the large-scale invasion, and then not given them up, but gone on to the front, and if those who remained inside the country had shown a desire to fight, to take up arms, to become partisans, I think the war would have ended much faster.
- We lack the spirit of the first months.
- Yes, it's not enough. The situation was difficult in Kyiv at the time. The enemy was near the city. We expected them to assault the capital. But what did I think for myself, for example? I took an assault rifle and ammunition and felt calmer. I think that even if they come in and capture some territory where I am, I will shoot from any entrance. Let's just say I'll be partisan. This is the attitude that those who are afraid of mobilization need now.
- Do you remember your first feelings when you arrived at the war front?
- I remember my first combat mission. We went to the "gray zone". We found a lot of ammunition there.
I even remember my body's reaction to that first combat mission. I really wanted something sweet - I ate three chocolates in a minute that I took with me.
Then everything went smoothly, we worked normally.
- Where was that?
- Near Bakhmut. I was in a reconnaissance unit at the time.
- Did the anti-tank platoon come later?
- The Svoboda battalion had no anti-tankers until the summer rotation last year. And there was a fear of tanks. That is, when tanks will enter, this means guaranteed death or capture for infantrymen. This discomfort lasted until the first battle with a large number of tanks. It was June 1. 10 of their newest tanks attacked the village where we were standing. And after the first burned tank, it became clear that the devil is not so black as he is painted.
The first one was followed by the second tank, the third, the fourth... And so we burned their equipment all summer.
I remember their last assault there. They were moving in a convoy of tanks, and as soon as they reached the first line, a guy from my platoon burned a tank with a Javelin that hadn't even moved to a combat position yet and was on its way. And they immediately ran away.
Now this is such an approach. They are sending out vehicles. If you burn the first vehicle, they start to panic. They start turning around, hitting mines, exploding, burning. And then it's up to the artillery to finish the job.
- I remember how one of the National Guardsmen, who did not have time to demobilize after his military service and stayed to fight, said that he hit the first tank and the column withdrew. It was in the Kyiv region. He wondered how he did it.
- It is not an easy task to burn equipment. It's not just a matter of firing a weapon. The hardest part is when the enemy is moving in a tank column, they fire heavily at all anti-tank positions with all kinds of weapons. Thank God that the guys and I had enough courage, and we never left our positions. You stand under heavy fire for an hour, and when the convoy withdraws, you launch from Stugna and Javelins. The equipment starts to burn.
- What does it mean to withstand heavy fire? Is it when you sit in some kind of a dugout?
- To withstand means to reach the position and actually sit under this fire without any additional protection, such as a trench. And to believe in God's help and that no mine or other projectile will come there.
And when the equipment starts firing, you have to stand up, launch and hide.
- Do you often have to rely on God at the front?
- All the time. Because when you see a shell flying in your direction, you realize that there is no more protection.
- Sometimes guys tell us or write on social media that they have two birthdays because one day they miraculously survived. Did you ever have one?
- Oh, there are so many birthdays in war! Here's an example. I got a shell shock on July 12 after another tank attack. The enemy had a task to find anti-tankers. They were shouting to each other in intercepts that they had to find us and destroy us because we had burned a lot of equipment. And thanks to their aerial reconnaissance, they found our positions. And that day, there was a fierce shelling of anti-tank positions.
We crawled into the trenches and dugouts, and they used "Grads", and all our positions were destroyed. We survived, thanks to God and the fact that their shell hit a neighboring dugout. It was smashed. It was a false position, and they thought they hit us, so they stopped shooting.
The four of us in the dugout were shell-shocked, but thank God we survived. But not everything is always successful. There are also losses. During the assault on June 1, my best friend, the platoon sergeant major, was killed. So not everyone always has a second birthday.
- Did he become a comrade at the front or did you join the battalion together?
- We were together at the training center. He was a very powerful instructor with knowledge of Stuhna. He was older than me.
I went to war, and he stayed at the training center with his sons. His two sons were also instructors at the training center. And then he started calling me every day, writing messages: "Please transfer us to your center, we want to fight, to defend, to be more useful." I hesitated and worried for a very long time. But in the end, he was transferred to us together with his sons. And in that big assault, where there was a convoy of 10 newest Russian tanks, he was killed during the shelling. And his sons burned the first two tanks in the column. And in fact, in this way they stopped the assault and prevented the loss of a very large number of people.
- I can't imagine how they felt then, or how you felt.
- It was probably the most difficult period in my life. Psychologically. The worst thing is when people from your unit die. This is as bad as it gets.
- War is always a lot of grief. Is there any joy? Well, apart from a burnt tank...
- It happens (laughs - author). At war, friends greatly reveal themselves. There are no friends like in war anywhere else. Therefore, if you have a good team, if they work together in a coordinated manner, it is a joy.
At war, you get used to living. There is already a certain atmosphere. It seems as if we have been here for a long time. I don't even know how we will return to peaceful life after this.
- How do you see yourself in civilian life: as a military pensioner or do you plan to change something, move somewhere?
- We don't think yet what will happen after the war. I don't know if I'll be alive until the end of the war.
I talked to the guys and I have never heard them say something like: "Here are my plans for after the war...". Everyone has a single desire - to survive. Because war is a lottery. You don't know who will be next.
- I feel that we should ask Kyrylo for another course.
- Our stress resistance and morale are at the highest level. We do our job, we do it well, and we do not plan to break down morally or psychologically until we win. I will definitely return to my beloved wife Mariia, daughter Sofia and son Makar.
Tetiana Bodnia, Censor.NET
