Mustang roufer who went to war: Infantryman is when everyone is trying to kill you and from time to time it happens
He became a world-famous Ukrainian roufer after painting a Soviet star blue and yellow in Moscow in 2014. After returning from the US after the start of the full-scale Russian invasion, Mustang Wanted joined the army, first flying drones and then becoming an infantryman.
In the programme "Who is with Miroshnychenko", he not only spoke about motivation, Russians, politics and politicians, civilians and women in the army but also invited the host Anna Miroshnychenko to join the army.
-When we were messaging on Facebook, I asked you how to address you. You told me Maksym, then I opened Wikipedia and there was a completely different name, then I was told that your name was Slava Ukraini (Glory to Ukraine-ed.). I think everyone will be interested in how to address you, what is your real name?
-As you wish.
-Do you have a call sign?
-White, I didn't create anything, you can create a better one for me because this is a problem.
-And why is it White?
-That's my surname.
-Is your real name White?
-Yes.
-And how is it written in your passport?
-Like on Facebook.
ABOUT THE BEGINNING OF THE GREAT WAR
-The beginning of a full-scale invasion - where were you exactly?
-As a true patriot, I was abroad. The circumstances were such that I had already been abroad for, I don't remember how long, maybe 4 months before the full-scale invasion began.
-You've lived in different countries, haven't you?
-I was in the United States, living the way I lived, sometimes breaking the law a little bit, doing tricks, training, reading. My Ukrainian position, if you can call it that, was unchanged then and now, so I didn't have to change anything. If I went abroad before, I was always myself. Maybe I could do more now. I think we should all do more now, but there were no major changes, if I talked to Americans before the invasion, of course, I told them everything as I thought it was in my opinion.
-Did you realize that sooner or later a full-scale invasion would begin?
-No.
-Did you think that the Russians would not attack?
-I don't know the future, it's very easy to say now that I knew it, I felt it, and so on, but I didn't know it. When these large-scale exercises began in the fall, I was already following this situation, I tried to watch different analysts, and I took it quite seriously, and these were not some sources that would start or not start now. I tried to look at the number of personnel, what they were doing, and what actions they planned to take. My prediction was... I was corresponding with someone that something would happen, I didn't think it would be a full-scale invasion, I thought they would definitely do something bad, because they had accumulated a lot of resources, and everything was going to happen.
-A full-scale invasion begins, you're abroad, you see these messages, what did you do?
-I wrote a post on Instagram. The information front. I did nothing else... I could have gone, I could have killed someone, a Russian, but I was in the US, I have some audience there on Instagram, I wrote what I thought and that's it.
-When did you come to Ukraine?
-Not immediately, I couldn't leave immediately. I must have missed half a year of the war, I think, somewhere around that.
ABOUT PREPARING FOR SERVICE
-And when you came to Ukraine, you left right away, or did you go to Ukraine with the idea that you would go to war?
- I realized it was going to happen, then someone came up to me near ATB, Military Recruitment Centre gave me a draft notice, it was a joke. I joined the army like everyone else. There is no heroic, strange story here, I think there is no difference whether a person lives in Kyiv or comes from abroad, I think everyone joined the army in the same way. That's it. Most of my acquaintances are involved in the war in one way or another, but now I tell everyone that they need to speed up, mobilize, and join the army, I've told all my friends this. I came to Kyiv, I don't remember how long I was here, a week or less, or more. But all the guys I met, I told them, I had a guy who rented a room with me, I told him too - bro, when are you going to be mobilized? I told him that it was better to try to get a military education now so that he wouldn't come as the hundredth cart, if he was ready for infantry life, because it's difficult, so that he would prepare. Not in the sense of praying, but gaining some knowledge, and then he would have a little more chance of not dying.
-And how many are willing after you talk to them? How do people react when you say, 'Well, guys, come on, come on, come with me'? What do they say?
- I would not advise you to come with me. I said, for example, you're not ready to become an infantryman - study drones. I gave specific advice on what to do, how to get a military occupational specialty, my shortcut and some mistakes - how to save time. Basically, to prepare for death, because it's a war, so that there are no high expectations. I don't know, I wouldn't say that I'm some kind of super-efficient military dude, I'm quite self-critical about it all, there's a lot to work on, a lot of things. Although I have one friend who said when I came back, I'm not surprised, it had to happen. I don't know, maybe it's some kind of image, people's perceptions, I didn't think much about it.
ABOUT THE INFANTRYMEN
-You are in the 47th Brigade, right?
-Yes.
-And you are an infantryman?
-Yes, I am. I studied UAVs, and then I was transferred to the infantry.
-Why?
-I don't know, but it was cool. I ended up in the infantry with almost no training, so it was even more interesting, I liked it. How did you like it? It's a nightmare, scary and all that. I like that I have this experience now.
-What's the horror, you're an infantryman, you say it's horrible, what do you mean?
-Everyone is trying to kill you and from time to time it happens. I guess you could call it a nightmare.
-You participated in assaults, operations: Robotyne, Avdiivka, is that where your brigade was?
-I didn't storm anything, we were stormed, and I was holding positions. I was not in Avdiivka, but on the outskirts, at the coke plant, and now our guys are there.
ABOUT CIVILIANS AND THE MILITARY
-I traditionally ask guys who come to Kyiv- what is wrong with Kyiv? What's annoying about Kyiv?
-Nothing annoys me, I ate, slept, went to you, got my weapon, tomorrow I will go to the training ground and hopefully I will go to work soon. I'm not surprised at anything, some people participate in the war, and there are people for whom there is no war. Is it strange? No. It's always been like this, I think, so I don't see anything so strange.
-Do you see a gap between civilians and the military now? In thinking, behavior, outlook on life?
-I don't have that complete feeling that I am a military man, and in general, I heard this a couple of times - for some reason, where I was, they just said the position, the name of the position, and that was it. It's a little strange for me. There is a difference, unfortunately, and it is in the perception of war as people watching YouTube and thinking that everything is fine, but if you send such a person to the positions, he or she will realize that everything is very scary and of course there will be a difference in understanding. I believe that we need to mobilize people, to involve them more actively in these events.
-You realize that there is a category of people who deliberately do not want to watch stories about the war, they do not want to watch stories with the military...
-I don't watch them either, I'm not very interested in them. And this is normal. If a person doesn't watch war stories, but they train not just to train, but to be ready to fight, that's okay. This is their way.
-There are still people who simply do not want to notice the war...
-There are different people...
-We need to reach them, to tell them something...
-That's what you're doing.
-But we can't do it through interviews. You post a very cool person, a cool military man, and watch the views, and it seems that people are not interested.
-Buy advertising.
-Should we pay for it?
-What else can we do?
ABOUT THE MOTIVATION
-Maybe people are already tired, aren`t they?
-It's about motivation. In a trench, you get super high motivation. If a person is tired, he can go to war. And realize that he has never been really tired before. Even though I am motivated, I'll tell you this, I want to come back and work more efficiently, for example, if I have the opportunity to return to the coke plant right now, I know what I can do there. But unfortunately, it doesn't work like that - you want to, you don't want to, you make something up. There is an order, or there isn't, or there will be another job, I don't know.
-Is the army as a global machine difficult for you? Did you see a lot of Sovietism there? Is there much that you would like to change? And this demotivates the military...
-A lot of them, but I don't know how to solve them, so I have some ideas. The simplest idea is, for example, to take some 88th battalion, which I hope does not exist, so I named it. Have you heard anything about it? No, I haven't. Neither have I. And no one has heard anything about it. But they have, for example, a press officer, and they, for example, take part in active actions, he just does his job inefficiently, so if you take his place, you will do it more efficiently and it will be better in general, so I think we need to involve more people. And it's about efficiency, so the main thing is not even corruption, nepotism, all of which is directly present, but the main thing is efficiency. It needs to be improved by all means.
-There's also such a thing as bureaucracy. The military tells us that there is a sock register, a soap register. Is this still kept in the army?
-There are many memes on this topic, it's not the worst thing. It can be bad... The cost of a mistake is very high. You can plan an operation and make a mistake, then a general's mistake, a company commander's mistake, and then a division commander's mistake, and as a result, you have huge losses, but you can't seem to escape from this.
ABOUT RUSSIANS AND PUTIN
-Do you know any Russians?
-Yes. I have one, I found him, it was difficult, one Russian-Russian. I have known him since childhood, he is my indicator of their views. I ask him, and he tells me about Nazism and fascism. There is one of them. It's not direct communication, it's like research.
-After studying his behavior and tactics, can you describe the motivation of the Russians now?
-I understand a little better Russians who are not at war. Those who are fighting, I think, are motivated by money and that's it. And a small percentage of those who really like to fight. And for Russians, propaganda is what everything is built on. They watch TV. They are going through difficult times, and they don't like their president either.
-Come on...
-They don't like NATO, and they like war, but they don't want to go there, because it's not the kind of war like in Syria, when you are strong and the enemy is weak and you can do things, dominate, it's cool to fight like that, but here it's not cool. I don't think they have any memories of coming here and fighting, and everything is cool. No, they feel bad here, and that's the way it should be, but it's a mysterious Russian soul.
-You said they don't like Putin. I don't think so, it seems to me that he is an idol for them. You watch interviews, and they don't say a bad word...
-And they can't say bad things because they'll be arrested. This oppresses them even more, and it's cool, they are oppressed by the Chechens there, and they have this problem too, and this conflict is getting bigger and bigger, and it's cool that they are there in this sense. They humiliate Russians, and Russians know it and can't do anything about it.
-Do you assume that as of now, the situation may be such that there will be a certain freezing of the conflict?
-This could happen, yes. How dangerous is it? We need to have a lot of data here - what is the state, number, training of our army, what is the state of our enemies and make decisions. I think it is difficult. I don't think it's easy to say that we continue or stop or change something... I'm still doing my job, I'm more concerned about this.
ABOUT THE VICTORY
-How do you see victory? Should we go to the border and stop?
-I think it depends on what we do. There are more realistic tasks - to fight off the enemy, which is already cool, at least in my opinion. And after that, if we have such opportunities, we have to move forward, and it is difficult. It's hard to think about what I'm going to do if we win. I think people have such thoughts when they stay at home for a very long time. I don't think such thoughts come up... I've never thought about it while on the field.
-What do you think about when you're in the field?
-"I think about everything, more about feelings than understanding. I didn't think it would be easy in the war, I never thought so, I felt it. Now I can better understand a person who is going through this path. People who don't have any experience at all, are not likely to understand. This is what I see. I communicate with my acquaintances, whom I consider to be intelligent people, and they have some kind of understanding and perception of the war, it seems to me that it is moving away from reality more and more. Perhaps this is how it should be.
HOW THE WAR CHANGED
-Do you think you have changed over the past year and a half? Maybe you're growing up?
-I am getting older, my knee hurts now.
-Back, knee?
-Yes.
-Do you have any other thoughts, maybe different values?
WHAT YOU CAN DO IN THE ARMY
-Possibly. By the way, have you ever thought about joining the army?
-I knew you would ask. No, I didn't.
-Why?
-A press officer, you mean? We're finishing the interview now, and you're going to tell me to go to the army, to be a press officer, you've already started talking about it, right? For example, to work in the press service.
-This is one of the options.
-By the way, I have a lot of friends who have gone, and Channel 5 journalists have actually joined the brigades to work in the press service.
-You can go to a combat position as well.
-For example?
-UAVs, drones, the headquarters has a lot of planning for smart people, it's also possible, there is electronic warfare, there is electronic intelligence, there are a lot of such positions, in addition to the assault infantryman, a lot of them and they are very important, in fact.
-I'm sure that even filling out these journals that we talked about, someone has to do that, someone has to bring these journals, someone has to work in the kitchen, if that's what you're talking about.
-I'm talking about something else. I'm not talking about the kitchen. Someone has to make sure that these magazines don't exist, maybe it will be you. I mean, some things need to be reformed, and the bureaucracy in the army is very bad. If someone puts it in order, many people will say how good it is, this person should be awarded.
-I would still shift the responsibility to certain ministries that deal with digitalization.
-But it's useless.
-"Diia" was created, we can do something similar, like "Diia."
-It's not that easy. If you have inspiration, you can try, people will be grateful to you for it, and it also brings the victory closer, if we are talking about victory. It may look like a small thing, but it's an important change and it's cool. To be honest, I think it's more important than...
-Rather than what we are doing now?
-Yes, rather than information wars, fronts and all that. -I think so.
-Well, look, even if I work in the press service in a brigade, I will still cover your actions, for example, what you do, what you say, will it also be coverage if I work with information?
-Yes, but you will do it better, I think, you will know more, understand more, you can help a particular unit become better, and they will become more media-friendly, for example, and they will have better support. Or you can set up some kind of process, it doesn't have to be the prefix "press," maybe it's something else, and that's cool.
-I'm not finding excuses, I didn't think about the army, I didn't think about it at all, although I haven't left anywhere, I live in the country. Do I cover you, do I make you media? Yes, I do. This is also a certain story.
-No, I think not. First of all, there is some kind of media coverage, okay, if it appears, what will I do with it? Most likely nothing. How will I use it? No way. And what's the point? I don't see much point, to be honest.
ABOUT WOMEN IN THE ARMY
-Are there many women serving alongside you? How many women did you meet on the war?
-There are two women in our unit. This is also an interesting topic. Some women have fought more than I have, and they have done more useful things than I have. But on average, if you go to a position, there will be men there. Sometimes women are combat medics. I mean, if you look at how many women are in the army, maybe there are 50 thousand of them, I've seen different figures. Just some figure of 50 thousand. But out of these 50 thousand, what positions do they hold? Most likely, it's a military recruitment office and things like that. Some of them are directly fighting, but guys "get burned" by the fact that they say that you are fighting and that women are fighting too. And a guy, an infantryman, comes to his position and doesn't see these women anywhere, because most infantrymen are men. And this is true. But there are women, and they are cool. Do you know what else you can do? You can become a crew chief. You don't even have to fly, you can organize this process. You have media coverage, you raise a couple of million dollars for your unit, and you hire young men, not like me, but younger men. I know how to fly FPV, for example, you take me as a pilot, you take someone else, you put together a group of 4 people, or you put together 3 groups of people and then you come to the staff, you plan, our group will create fire cover from the air and it will be cool.
-I need to think about it.
-Think about it, for sure.
-I'll think about it, it's the first time I've been offered this. But I understood your message: the main thing is not to devalue the work of each of us, because we somehow think that we want to do this, we think that we are doing something useful.
-It's all an illusion. Just like I can say that I am doing or have done something useful. There is a war going on here, and if we are not doing something for the army or directly to win, then it is not so important now. This is my opinion. I can skateboard and do super-cool tricks, it's important, it's art, it's cool, it's beautiful, but it's not the right time. Now we have to fight. And yes, you can skateboard and raise money. It's all about efficiency -how much money can I raise? A thousand dollars? Then I need to go and become a stormtrooper. If I raise a lot of money and do it efficiently, collect a bunch of drones, then it's cool, I think such people should raise money, but there are not many such people. And everyone else needs to be mobilized.
-We are fantasizing about the ending. The war ends, it will end somehow, I won't ask about your plans and when you will get married. Do you want to skateboard, as you just said, in Ukraine or will you leave?
-"I don't know, it's such an intimate moment - I don't know if I will live to see the end of this war. I think it's better not to think about it, not to think that you'll make it, why live with such expectations? And then, a surprise. It's better to think about what's happening now. I mean, I know for sure that I will return to the war. This is the future. And politicians, life in Ukraine, society - all this is in the background.
-You're not interested in politics at all now?
ABOUT KLYCHKO, ZELENSKYY AND POLITICS
-"I am a soldier. So I am interested.
-Yes, I remember your conversation with Klytschko. He asked why you were doing what you were doing on the bridge, why you weren't going to the ATO (anti-terrorist operation), he said.
-Oh, by the way, you remembered it well. I think he said something about the army.
-He said go to the army. You said that I was in the army.
-"Vitalii, go join the army.
-Were you already in the army at that stage?
-No, I didn't serve in the army, I traveled - military tourism, that's what I did from time to time, I wasn't in the army. I believe that the army can actually forgive some sins. I mean, if Vitalii joins the army now, I'll say, " Vitalii, you rock! Despite all that he did, it's something to think about, but I'm not talking about myself, I'll say, okay, it happened, but you rock, you joined the army. If he went there, of course, he is a high-ranking person, a government official, and so on. By the way, this is an interesting question. If Vitalii had joined the army and left everything as it was, would it have become more effective or not?
-Managing the city?
-"Yes, Vitalii said tomorrow that he was sick of everything, so I went to war. He took a drone, flies around, or drives an infantry fighting vehicle, and just went to war. Can you imagine if the level of corruption decreased once, if it stabilized if it became better - can it happen?
-A counter question: if the President of the country says, "I'm going to war, I'm going to the 47th Brigade," will the country function without the President?
-Without the President, I think no, but without Vitalii, maybe yes.
-You have a special attitude.
-I don't see him governing effectively. There are a lot of questions about Zelenskyy, but he is effective in something right now, and he is doing it, and there is no better solution at this point in time. I mean, the situation is complicated as it is, and I think it can only get better for Vitalii if, for example, to change the mayor in Kyiv.
-And finally, you've been asked a hundred times what would you paint now?
-Nothing. I'm not interested, I haven't thought about it. It's better to work efficiently on the drones.
- God willing, you will succeed.
-God willing.
-It's a difficult conversation, but very interesting, really. It seemed to me that I talked more, but that's just the way it is. I will join in a little bit, work a little bit. Dear friends, we are leaving a link to a map for the unit, our hero today is collecting FPV drones, so let's help our boys, our defenders a little bit so they can bring our victory closer. I'm grateful for the conversation, see you in a year.
-As it goes.
https://send.monobank.ua/jar/8HTnWDsGuE
Mustang Wanted
Anna Miroshnychenko, "Who's with Miroshnychenko", Channel 5
