POW FROM "WAGNER" TELLS ABOUT MARCH ON MOSCOW: "TASK IS TO CANCEL SHOIGU"
This Russian soldier from Vologda has been in prison since he was 15 years old. He joined the Wagner PMC, took part in Yevgeny Prigozhin’s infamous march on Moscow, and says that his main task was to arrest Shoigu and Gerasimov.
-We marched on Moscow and Rostov for rebellion.
-You speak so calmly, like someone telling you to go to a disco. Was it mostly convicts?
-I remember one guy who had two mortgages there.
-He marched Moscow to close two mortgages. Cool in general, super. Such a patriot of the Russian world.
- The main task is to arrest Shoigu and Gerasimov.
"Until they are not put out of the way, we'll stay here."
- I said Shoigy to give up. He said that he's not going to give up, cancel.
-Cool, the man, Paradox.
How much money did you get for marching on Moscow?
-approximately 600 thousand.
-If Prigozhin comes back again and says, I'm going to march on Moscow. Will you go?
-.More likely, yes.
***
What is your name? Please introduce yourself.
Komissarov Maxim Alexandrovich.
Where are you from and where do you serve?
I come from the city of Vologda. I serve in the 7th Separate Motorised Rifle Guards Assault Regiment, Kaliningrad.
When and under what circumstances were you taken prisoner?
On the 16th, we went to the stream to get water. We were spotted by a drone, an UAV. There was a drop, even a couple of them, then fire was opened from above from a ravine from a machine gun nest, threw a grenade and offered to surrender.
Where were you captured?
The Usy position, the Usy ravine is called.
How many Russian soldiers were there, who were in command?
Miron was in command, then Sailor, I don't know the names. At the position I saw 5 more people, according to them, there are more.
Well, how long were you at the front when they brought you back from Russia, how long did you spend here? A week?
Yes, about a week, maybe even less. But as of today, I've been on Ukrainian territory for about a week.
A week and captured, well, it's normal, in general, lucky even, one can say. They didn't take off your watch in captivity, did they?
No, they didn't take my watch off.
You see, everything is taken from Ukrainian servicemen in Russian captivity. You see, you are even left with watches. How are you treated in captivity, by Charter Brigade?
They treat me well, they give me water, give me three meals, give me cigarettes, take me to the toilet as needed.
Are your arms and legs intact?
Yes, all intact.
And what kind of tattoos do you have, everything here is covered with tattoos?
I've been in prison since I was 15.
From the age of 15? How old are you?
28.
And you've been in prison since you were 15?
Yes.
With any intervals?
With intervals, yes.
For what were you in prison?
Thefts, hijackings, theft of state property, historical, cultural and scientific property, and threats of murder.
Wow. A lot. How many sentences do you have, how many terms?
That would have been a fourth term, I withdrew from law enforcement investigation at SMO. And served 10 years.
Yeah, wow. All your adult life in prison.
Yes.
Have you served anywhere before? Did you have any military experience?
I was also trained at PMC Wagner. Last year, in May, I went there, gave blood, well, had a medical examination, that's all. They trained me for four days in Molkin, after that they took me to Luhansk, near Millerovo.
Can you tell me how you actually got to Wagner? Were you taken from prison as well?
No, I wasn't taken from prison, I was in a high-security prison with a man, a good friend of mine. I was released on parole, and I went out partying, started using drugs and alcohol. And, well, I was sitting on VKontakte, on social networks, watching that he was online. I said, "Where are you? He says, "I'm in Vologda. I said let's meet, and we did, and he explained to me that he had been in the Wagner PMC, and advised me that the guys there would help me.
Wow. For what was he in prison when you met him?
111st, 4th.
For murder?
Yes.
Wow. And then he was released, right? You immediately wondered how it was possible to be released for murder.
Yes.
And what did he tell you about Wagner?
Well, those guys would help me there, that is, they would not leave. I took a picture with his badge, he sent it to his handler from PMC Wagner, he gave me this number, I called, they explained that I had to get to Yaroslavl. There I will buy an electronic ticket and go to Krasnodar. No motives there, nothing even asked. That's it, I arrived in Krasnodar, from Krasnodar to Molkin by bus. And that's how I ended up in the PMC Wagner.
Perhaps, for the sake of authenticity, you should tell us what your badge number was in the Wagner PMC so that there is no doubt.
T. Timofei 6237.
Okay. Where, what were the call signs of the commanders, who were the commanders of your assault unit?
Assault, 20th Assault Detachment, 6th Assault Platoon. The Assault Detachment commander was Vicegerent, and Assault Platoon commander was Paradox. Then, I didn't have time to tell you, he changed his call sign to Irom.
How long did it take you to train at Wagner?
In Wagner, this is the whole time I was there, there was preparation until August 12, except that we marched on the city of Moscow and Rostov-on-Don for rebellion.
So calmly say, we went on the rebellion, I don't know, as someone says, to go to a disco. Well, tell us in general, such an event in the history of Russia, in life, I think, very resonant. How did this rebellion take place? That is, you did not take part in combat operations, you were immediately taken away and you took part in only one Wagner operation, this was a campaign to Moscow, I understand correctly?
Yes.
Yes, and it's really interesting to know how Wagner's commanders explained to the soldiers why they had to go to storm Moscow.
First, the commander of the assault detachment and the platoon commander.
An assault assault detachment commander, an assault platoon commander, right?
Yes, the assault detachment commander was explaining to the assault platoon commander. Such excitement was seen like this, with the assault platoon commander. Because he was with us together, damn, even lived with us, like brothers like that, he was explaining like that. Here. And, well, I was wondering, I said, what happened, why was it like that? He was like, yes, it's such a historical moment in his life that it's impossible to refuse it. And he, well, so he gathered the people, he chose whom he could trust, and he said first, well, two weeks, maybe, a march on Moscow, explained that we will go to the Crimea. What to do specifically, he just said that we would go to the Crimea.
To the Crimea?
Yeah. And he said whoever wanted to could refuse. There won't be 500ths, well, objectors. There won't be any 500ths, they would all be paid. You would be sent home. Who wanted, went to the Ministry of Defense, you would also be paid, they sent you to the Ministry of Defense, you would renew your agreements with it. There, well, a sufficient number of guys refused, but here I learned from a serviceman with whom I saw, not far from Shebekino, during training, he told me that he took these guys who refused, took them to the front line from the PMC Wagner.
Oh, you met another friend of yours there who said that those who did not want to go to Moscow were sent to zero line.
Yes.
Interesting.
Then, after a while, he says we'll march on Moscow. The commander of the assault detachment.
The commander of the assault detachment, our commander, who lived with us, said that we would march on Moscow, our task, the task of our assault detachment was to guard the tank. If police officers, special forces and so on start firing, take a machine gun, reload it, well, everyone should be wearing balaclavas, gloves, so that the tattoos would not be visible. Reload the machine gun, aim it and say that if the fire is not stopped, we will be forced to shoot to kill. And he told us to only shoot under their feet. And then, like, that's what he said, well, you might overshoot.
There you go.
Yeah, I see. Yeah. Good command.
Yes.
To overshoot a police officer, you must have thought about it for 15 years, right, so you didn't have to be persuaded, right? Well, in principle, you took it well, right? All the convicts who were already in jail, like you, when they were told to shoot at the police, there were no questions, right?
They supported it, in general.
Well, everyone just kept quiet, everyone had their heads screwed on right
I see. Well, in general, nobody tucked tail and...
No, we were 110-120 people, 120 at the most. Out of this total number of people, well, 50-60, maybe even less than 60, yes, more likely, 50 people left from our assault detachment, here in the column. The rest who left, there, were 500ths, it turns out, well, the guys got in the front line.
Well, almost half of them agreed to go.
Yes, yes, yes.
They agreed to shoot, which means that they were not frightened by all this.
Yes.
Well, wow. And these were mostly convicts, right?
Yes, yes.
These are people who are not afraid of the authorities anymore.
I remember one guy who had a mortgage, well, not a convict, he had two mortgages.
Ah, two mortgages.
Yes.
He marched on Moscow to close two mortgages. Cool in general, super. This patriot of the Russian world is so original.
The rest served sentence.
Who is the assault squad leader who urged so much on shooting at police?
Paradox.
Paradox? Call sign Paradox. Don't you remember his name?
I don't know anyone by name at all. They told me that, well, only the call sign.
And the commander of the assault unit that set the task, what was his call sign?
Vicegerent.
Vicegerent?
Vicegerent.
If anyone would be able to help us with contacts with Wagner commanders, Paradox, Vicegerent, with call signs, people who are ready to storm Moscow and fight the Russian police, special forces, please give us a contact, please get in touch. First of all, would be helpful to the fighter. And secondly, such people who are able to make such decisions are, in principle, badly needed in war.
Tell us how the story went on. When did you get the task to march to Moscow? Do you remember it? June 24th, yes, it seems?
I don't remember the date. Well, I remember that we packed up all completely on military combat readiness, completely. There's one and a half zinc 5.45s in the briefcase. As many grenades as you can cram in, well, as many as you can carry.
That's fine.
Carry as many magazines as you can. And the same for grenades. Medicine, everything. Well, full military combat readiness. We waited for air, apparently for three hours just lying on the ground. Cars were waiting for us. There was a command to load into cars. We loaded into the cars and drove off. Everyone, we drove, stopped from time to time, and we were fired upon.
Where was the first time you were shot at? When you were crossing the border?
No, after we crossed the border, one column split into two. One convoy went to Rostov, and after an hour and a half or two, they opened fire on us.
Yes? How was it, can you tell us?
As I understood it, the helicopters opened fire and the whole convoy stopped. We were ordered to scatter from the vehicle in case it detonated. That's it, we scattered, lay down for a couple of minutes, even less. Then we got back on. Apparently, it was shot from a man-portable air defence system ( MANPADS).
A helicopter was shot down.
Yes, apparently. We shot down several helicopters. I saw once that we shot down a helicopter before Voronezh.
Wow. Right off the column, huh? Did you see that?
Yes, right, well, I saw it. In the field, about 100 metres from me, diagonally, 45 degrees from me, if you look at it like this, about 100 metres away, yes, right from the field, from the MANPADS, the Igla fired.
Wow. So your convoy was covered by Wagner with Igla?
Yes, yes, yes.
Cool. A helicopter was shot down by a Wagner before your eyes?
Yes.
Wow. Was that a fighter from your unit?
There are also units there, air defence, artillery, and he's probably from the air defence. Yeah, they're scattered along the convoy so that the convoys can pass unhindered.
Yeah. That's a good idea. Wow.
Devious minds
Yes, you see how it has been thought out of everything. A helicopter was shot down near Voronezh, right?
Yes, before reaching Voronezh.
Tell me, you had crossed the state border from Ukraine to Russia, you were travelling in a convoy, but did no one try to stop you? No one...
They tried to stop us once, I remembered the Ministry of Defence, I could not remember the name of the vehicle, KAMAZ- air defence vehicle.
Pantsir.
Pantsir, yes, Pantsir. They stopped at Pantsir, and two people got out of the Pantsir. What can two people do against a convoy? They were told, guys, don't be stupid, put down your weapons and get out of here. So they did. And we took Pantsir for ourselves.
Yeah, wow. Was this all happening right before your eyes?
Yes.
You mean that they took Pantsir from the Russian Ministry of Defence?
Yes.
Wow. Did other units try to stop you? You were passing through populated areas, right?
We were driving by, waving. People.
People. And the police?
No one tried to do that. You mean like the police would interfere with us? No, I didn't see them.
But did you see any military personnel or Russian police officers at all?
I have doubts. There was one van, and people were constantly driving around, filming. I thought they were FSB officers. This is just a guess. That is, neither weapons nor resistance were provided by them.
Well, did they shoot from the ground at all? Was it?
No. There was this one time when we shot down a helicopter. We scattered right through the wood line. Who got scattered on the wood line, we got scattered on the open terrain. Well, my car, in which I was in. We were lying down, and I heard a command not to open fire. I raised my head, I looked, one car, ministers detrucked from it. The green uniforms, it's visible. Ministry of Defense.
Next to you are the Ministry of Defence and the Russian military.
Well, about 70 metres from the road.
70 metres!
They are shouting not to open fire. And then the soldiers were detrucking, apparently. They said something, I didn't hear. After that, they told us we were terrorists. All that kind of stuff.
Who said you were terrorists?
Vicegerent.
Did the Vicegerent say you were terrorists?
Yeah. We have been declared terrorists.
Oh, you have been declared terrorists.
Yes. We will now resolve these issues so that all criminal cases of the investigative committees are closed. All that sort of thing. Literally two hours after we were told that criminal cases had been opened, we all got up, didn't go anywhere else and didn't go back. I don't know why. Apparently, they were resolving issues. And it turned out that we were going to Belarus.
Yeah. Where did they tell you?
This is where we shot down the helicopter.
Near Voronezh?
Yes.
Yeah. Did you stop at the place where the helicopter was shot down?
Yes.
In general, did anyone try to rescue the pilots in the helicopter? Did anyone go there, did anyone watch? Were they there?
I don't know, I didn't see it. I didn't see it. Later I found out that they were killed.
Oh, I see.
Like, they were appointed heroes of Russia.
In general, how is this commander, the Vicegerent, with you, is that how you were announced?
They just told on the walkie-talkie.
You got in the car and drove back? What happened?
No, he drove a car, an L-200. He drove to his Assault Detachment, gathered everyone together, as a group, so as not to go around explaining everything at once. He explained to everyone at once and said that we were going to Belarus. That's all, and we went.
Well, in general, when you were travelling in a convoy across Russia, Voronezh is already a long way away, several hundred kilometres. What was the mood of the soldiers in general?
It's cheerful, upbeat.
Cheerful, upbeat, right? Well, how did you understand it for yourself? That you would come and put things in order, right? Is that what it was like for you?
Well, Paradox told me, I didn't know if it was a secret or not, that the main task was to arrest Shoigu and Gerasimov.
I asked him, I said, here I am, a kid, 25 years old, oh, I was 27 years old at the time, 27 years old. I said Shoigy to give up. He said that he's not going to give up, cancel.
Tell me, please, so this is what you were told was the goal, you're marching to Moscow to pick up Shoigu and Gerasimov. Uh-huh, I see. Well, if anything, to kill.
Yes, well, if they don't give up.
If they don't give up.
Well, they will not surrender, as I understand it. Well, we were driving, cheerful, emotional, but I have never seen such a mood in the Ministry of Defence.
They were afraid of you, weren't they?
Well, there are rumours that it is.
When Prigozhin was killed, what did you think, what were your thoughts, your comrades' in arms thoughts, when you found out?
Fake.
Didn't believe it?
No.
Do you believe it now?
No, because there are many rumours that he is in Africa.
Did Prigozhin live?
Yes, but I don't know this personally, but there are a lot of rumours.
Could he return to Russia?
Perhaps, if necessary. I've even heard it said that Wagner is waiting to be called.
Are you waiting too?
Waiting what?
Wagner's call.
I'm over it, I'm neutral about it.
But if you return to Russia and Prigozhin appears...
I will no longer be employed by the Wagner PMC.
Why?
The Wagner PMC has such a condition. If you were in the Wagner PMC and then joined the Ministry of Defence or some other organisation, you will not be accepted back.
Well, what if Prigozhin comes back again and says, I'm going to march on Moscow. Will you go?
More likely, yes.
Do you want to change something in Russia?
Well, if not such an authoritative leader, but not the same as in the Ministry of Defence.
But not with the Ministry of Defence. And if this Ministry of Defence told you to go and block the way for Wagner's convoy, would you shoot at Wagner?
No.
This is an honest answer. Do you think Prigozhin could replace Shoigu and Gerasimov at all?
Why not? He has his head on straight. He's a cunning guy, but he has his head on straight.
You trusted him, didn't you?
Yes. Despite the fact that he had previously been in prison for something, some robberies and something like that.
Tell me, why did people have such a hatred for Shoigu and Gerasimov? What do you think it was based on?
Corruption, I guess.
Well, in my opinion, yes, corruption. They make money from the war.
You also feel it on your own level, don't you?
Well, yes. When I came to the Ministry of Defence, I felt it right down to my fingertips. Yeah. We even bought rifle magazines by ourselves. Two or three magazines were given to someone.
Do they give two or three magazines per soldier?
Yes. We bought it in a store.
It's amazing.
Yes, so corruption hasn't gone away. Gerasimov remained in the Ministry of Defence. Well, you had to serve there after all.
Yes.
Tell me, these fighters who marched with you to Moscow, when they turned back from Moscow, what kind of mood did they have?
It's so perplexing. Why did we go? Why did we even need to go? What kind of circus is this? All sorts of things. This kind of talk.
Prigozhin, did Prigozhin, Utkin, Wagner's commander, yes, did they address you in any way? Did they address the soldiers in any way? Any explanations? Did they give you any money? Any rewards for your loyalty?
There were rewards for training. That is, you train for a full course of three weeks at Molkino. The instructors look at how well you learn and give you a chevron. Red, green and silver. And I don't remember exactly how much it costs, the amount is 20, 20 thousand there, 30 and 50. An additional bonus. A one-time bonus.
I see. Well, did you pay for the march on Moscow?
Yes, I was paid at the end. Well, as on August 12, I was sent home.
Well, how much money did you receive for marching on Moscow? I wonder how much it cost.
approximately 600,000.
600,000 rubles? Wow, that's a decent amount of money. For only 3 months. So you were just paid 200 each?
Did everyone who marched on Moscow get the money?
Yes, every penny. I met some acquaintances there who didn't get it all. Well, they are the 300th there, in short. That's the payout. As far as I know, the Wagner Company didn't cheat anyone about the money. They paid everybody.
In Wagner, there was also full provisioning, uniforms, right? Can you compare the attitude of the commanders in Wagner with the attitude of the commanders in the 7th Motorized Rifle Regiment in the Russian army?
It's like heaven and earth.
What is the difference? Tell us what, where and how.
Well, it's just kind of like the Ministry of Defense here, the instructor looks at you like you're meat. Well, you know, you learn or you don't learn, he'll show you and he won't babysit you. In the company, Paradox even taught us. He stood up for us, sometimes the instructors scolded us saying, " What are you doing there, can I swear? You can't f#cking do anything." Paradox says they aren't mental slugs, they know how to do everything. Why are you talking to them like that? And he explained himself, this is how it's done, this is how it's done.
No planning?
None at all.
Just one there, somewhere, right?
That's the way it is, that's the way it is. Go there, I don't know where. I ended up running through Luxembourg with Puck, Puck was 300ths by a drop. There's, uh, panic, everything. I use the walkie-talkie to call a Sailor. I said, "Can you tell me where to go? He says yell the Globe. I'm going to tell Globe to yell you, I mean, you know? To run at the voice. All orientation.
Cool. Voice guidance. Don't you have maps, tablets?
They give you a cell phone with the Alpen Quest. It's got coordinates marked where to go. Points are marked. At the Berlin position itself, I saw two 200ths on the trail. Well, ours, I guess. They're just lying there. They're already putrefying.
What is it, they don't take people away? Berlin, it's not like Usy, it's not the most front line. It's a bit further away, isn't it?
I have, I'll tell you more, I have before Berlin, well, Dougie and I went to Berlin to pour in. And there's a watering hole there, too. Well, like a swamp. A tank started to fire on us there. And one of my old men was 300ths. He was bandaged, everything was done. I almost prayed to the Sailor. I don't know how to explain it properly. Well, with a good request. I said that we need to evacuate my old men. Old man, well, he's a good man, it's a pity. He's all-all, everything was fine. Like, I found people, informed them that this was specifically my order to carry him to zero line. It's all good. And I was relieved, right away. On Berlin, I found out he was two hundred. They didn't take it, in short, it leaked out. He was bandaged.
Bandaged?
Yes, and left in the ravine. And they left him, nobody took him.
It was from your group, wasn't it, a fighter?
Yes, it was a fighter from my group. I mean, there were eight in groups. One was wounded by a drone drop, one was killed by tank fire. Yeah. Well, the dead one was replaced right away. Well, not right away, before the sending to Berlin.
And it's your whole company that has to accumulate there on this position of Usy, right, in the ravine? And then go forward. Is that right?
Well, yes.
I also understand that, as you so explained, you are sent in and storm in groups. Men are sent just for meat, well, for slaughter in the elimination of personnel.
Did you tell this to the commanders at all?
Yeah, they're talking about it themselves.
Yes?
Yes.
Did Miron tell you that?
No, not Miron.
Who did?
Nobody told me personally. Guys said there's a guy named Streege. He said it's about killing personnel. And some Sochi answered to Strizh that everybody's being sent anyway. Well, I mean, higher and higher up the ladder. They're sending to the leadership.
Sochi?
Yeah.
The call sign of the Regiment Commander is Sochi, isn`t it?
Well, I don't know who he is, honestly. I know his call sign and all that his words have been passed around.
In general, what do the soldiers and fighters tell you about the losses in the Seventh Regiment in these battles? Did they tell you anything about the losses? About the risk?
Well, it was said about self-sacrifice, that kind of thing. About the 200ths. I was told that there was a 200th there, and he turned out to be a prisoner here. I mean, Zenith is his call sign. I directly heard from a man - Zenith is 200th. I thought, well, why 200th? I explained that he was burned, then he was set on fire a second time and that's it, he couldn't get out because his legs were burned to the bone. And here he turns out to be a prisoner. I mean, well, it's like this. A man is taken prisoner, and they write him down as our 200th.
Wow. So, to simplify the reporting. So that we don't have to bother, we don't have to pick him up. They say 200th and that's it. Goodbye. That's an amazing story. I didn't even think there could be such an attitude. Well, what did you see here, anyway? What's the biggest loss here?
All I saw here was my 200ths. Yeah. Well, I saw a couple of burnt-out skeletons that, well, couldn't be identified.
Oh, I see. Yeah. The situation, of course, is not to be envied. Well, and in general, the rest of the men in the assault company, did you notice if there is at least one veteran in the company who has been serving for more than a month?
We didn't have any.
Do you have a family?
No. Well, there is only uncle.
Only uncle?
Yes.
And mum and dad?
My mother died, and I don't communicate with my father.
Mm-hmm. You are a loner. In fact, apart from prison and these prison connections, you have no one in your life?
Yes. So because of these prison connections, because of this prison, it's impossible to even get a job properly. If you come to work and you have a criminal record, you're not allowed to work.
Yeah. Basically, you don't have any options right now, do you? I mean, it's like this. You either go back to committing a crime or you get sent here to be slaughtered.
I'd hate not to commit a crime and not go to the slaughter.
Yeah.
I'd like to start a new life.
And now you have the opportunity, if you want to pass some message to someone, please speak up.
I want to address to Zverolovlev Alexander Borisovich. Sanya, would be help me, please, to get out of captivity. And if you can see someone from the boys who is going to war, it's all nonsense, there is no attitude at all. We were met in captivity, well, really not beaten, nothing, fed three times a day. Well, I can't stay in Ukraine. We are... What's the word? Occupiers, it turns out. Well, actually, we're going to the Ukrainian border, not they are going to us. So, well, who's going, don't send them, dissuade them. If there's any way to help me, help me, please. Thank you.
