Dmytro Kukharchuk (Slip), 3rd Brigade commander: War has changed in August-September this year and turned into drone warfare
Dmytro Kukharchuk, commander of the 2nd Assault Battalion of the 3rd Separate Mechanized Brigade with call sign Slip, went to the Russian-Ukrainian war in 2014. But he resigned the following year. - I wouldn’t have done it if the country’s leadership at the time had been willing to fight for Ukrainian territories. We understood that this was not the case," he explained to me. - "In fact, I really regret not staying then. Thus, there was no intense fighting for a long period of time, but I would have had the opportunity to improve my military skills. But it has already happened. It didn’t matter. As soon as the full-scale invasion began, I came back. Now I have to push the matter through.
- The 3rd Assault Brigade is fighting in the Bakhmut direction. How is the front line moving here now?
- We can state that today the front line is stable. That is, there are no advances on either our side or the enemy's. The offensive actions that our brigade and my battalion launched back in May were successful, given the enemy's concentration and the means they had and have. They outnumbered us seven to ten times. Nevertheless, we managed to carry out active offensive actions and recapture Ukrainian lands. I'm speaking in the past tense because the brigade is now going to recuperate. I can't tell you where exactly, for security reasons.
Everything is stable now, but we must take into account the fact that this direction has always been a priority for the enemy. This is the minimum plan they are ready to stop at to explain to their population the large number of their losses. I am talking about the Donetsk and Luhansk regions. That is, Popasna, then Bakhmut, and they plan to move on to the Sloviansk-Kramatorsk-Druzhkivka-Kostiantynivka axis. Thus, the capture of the Donetsk region in their understanding would be a success for them and the achievement of their primary goal. That is why the enemy has concentrated its greatest efforts here, not only since the beginning of the full-scale second offensive but in general. I'm talking about Donbas in general, but I'm focusing on the Bakhmut direction because that's where they got away with it. We are not discussing the methods they used. But if we talk about some logical things - the correlation between achieving the goal and common sense - it is clear that it all made no sense. After all, they buried more than a hundred thousand people here. However, we can see that progress was made and the goal was achieved at some point. On the other hand, we can say that the Russian troops were "ground" in this area. Thus, our goal was realized: we stopped them and launched a counteroffensive in May.
Why is it difficult to advance now? Firstly, because the enemy is concentrating great efforts here and is trying to restrain our advance. Secondly, we all realize that one of the most important factors affecting offensive operations is the weather. It is not in our favor right now. Although it is not in their favor either.
- And what is the situation with the Russians' supplies? Has the number of personnel and equipment increased?
- They are concentrating elite airborne units in the Bakhmut direction. Their tactics have changed. They have begun to use unmanned aerial vehicles much more frequently, both for reconnaissance and for firepower. They fly in swarms. The war is moving to a new technological phase and has become a drone war. I can make an assumption, but I don't want anyone to read this interview in six months and think that it was wrong. I'm not claiming to be right here. But right now, UAVs are at the peak of their use. In the future, I think that both our side and theirs will simply begin to rapidly develop electronic warfare, and at some point this will either be stopped or will not matter so much, meaning that we will return to classical warfare. But, again, this is my guess. Perhaps technology will move in such a direction that we simply cannot predict how the nature of war will change today. However, I can already state that it has changed in August-September of this year when the concentration of attack drones along the entire line of contact increased significantly - several times. This is now a factor that cannot be ignored.
- In an interview, you said that "it will be an intense and prolonged war". In an article for The Economist, the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Valerii Zaluzhnyi, wrote that the war is becoming a positional war, and it could benefit Russia, as it will allow it to restore its military power. What should we do in this situation?
- First of all, we need to rely on military science. It tells us that the initiative in war is possible only on the offensive. And when we talk about any defense, it means the enemy seizing the initiative. Therefore, the Armed Forces should aim to conduct constant offensive actions. If it does not, it will mean that we are handing over the initiative to the enemy. Regardless of the nature of their actions, having a concentration of forces and means greater than ours (we understand that they have been preparing for the invasion for a considerable period of time), we have no choice but to continue offensive actions. If we are talking about the desire to recapture our territories, to reach the 1991 borders, to gain the historical justice that can end the war, then these are ephemeral things. And there are practical things: if we don't attack, they will, and then we may lose much more. Therefore, we have to keep attacking.
- But constant offensive actions require resources, including human resources. We know what the situation is with mobilization. Frankly speaking, there are no queues. You are going to recovery, which is reasonable - you need to give the soldiers a break and replace them. How do you encourage people to join?
- This is probably the most difficult issue on our agenda today. It is about whether we are ready to take the test: are we a nation or not. If so, how do we encourage people to save their own lives? This is a particular question. When you are a representative of the nation, you have to scale it up. I am sure that all people are selfish by nature. However, egoism can be healthy and unhealthy. In the first case, a person puts his family and nation first, not himself. In this case, we are talking about the survival of us as Ukrainians. It is clear that, in addition to mobilization activities, we need to carry out ideological activities that would educate people... I will not say: teach them to love Ukraine, because if you live here, how can it be otherwise? On the other hand, sometimes we have to convince some people why this should be done. We can convince a few hundred or a thousand people, but it has to be mainstream. I don't see it now. You're right: there are no queues at the military recruitment offices. What happened is that Ukrainians are too relaxed now. We remember how powerful the mobilization was at the beginning of the full-scale invasion, and how it has fallen today. We are not talking about losing in the classic style, when you can lose the country - after all, the Russians do not have enough resources to reach Lviv. We have internal mobilization resources that wake up when people realize that things are very hot. But if the population continues to remain relaxed, such risks are real. The sooner people realize that everyone will have to fight, the better. Studying history and the enemy, who outnumbers us and has a goal and ideological basis, we must understand that this will be a very difficult war and what has already happened and is happening now may seem like "small potatoes". The sooner our people understand this (and I think it will happen), the sooner we will be able to preserve the state and recapture our territories. Since we are fighting on our land, we have a chance and opportunity to do so. And in the long run, by destroying the enemy's personnel, we will be able to destabilize the situation in Russia and bring this evil empire to its destruction.
What are we fighting for? To prevent our children from having to do this. You know, when there is sometimes talk of a truce, only a person completely abstracted from reality can say that it will be prolonged. This is a temporary phenomenon that will eventually lead to war anyway. Russia has repeatedly proved in this century and in previous ones that it will not stop at what it has started. Therefore, our main goal is not only to return to the 1991 borders but also to make sure that they do not have the intention and opportunity to think about seizing Ukrainian lands in the future.
- So that they are even afraid to look in our direction...
- In particular. We are at war with an empire. And sooner or later they will demise. It will happen in any case. But the important point is whether they will demise because of our active struggle against them, which will lead to the formation of a great Ukrainian nation, or whether it will happen by chance due to other factors, but we will not be involved in this process. Every Ukrainian should ask himself this question and think about whether he is worthy of being a proud representative of Ukraine.
-Your brigade is also recruiting volunteers. You launched a recruitment campaign with the slogan: "Break into the Third Assault Brigade", where the key people were the commanders, including you. I often see you on billboards. Do you get any feedback?
- Of course, we do. The vast majority of people come to us through recruitment centers, outdoor advertising, and videos. They see that our goal is to win this war, that we are actually engaged in combat training, equipment, and planning operations.
You know what they say now: corruption scandals in the Military Recruitment Centres have led to people's disappointment. This is an excuse. Now the question of Ukraine's existence as a whole is at stake. As I said, it's a test to see if we deserve to be a nation and have a state in the center of Europe. I hope that people will realize this as soon as possible and come to us. It is very difficult to praise ourselves, but the 3rd Assault Brigade has shown its uniqueness. We are not a brigade that has existed for a certain period of time. We are a little over a year old. Of course, we had combat experience before that. However, we have not been functioning as a brigade for long. But we have already shown real results and that we are able and willing to fight. We have the most motivated people. In addition to the fact that they come to us as such, we also create an atmosphere of brotherly spirit so that everyone understands that they will not be left to the mercy of fate, will receive maximum knowledge of combat training, will not go naked and barefoot on a combat mission, and will not go on an unplanned mission. This increases the motivation with which a person comes to the start. We also communicate with other departments. I never refuse to help when people ask for it. For example, they write: "We see how you assault, can you teach us how to do it?". We sometimes have the opportunity to send our instructors. Again, this may sound like praise, which I don't like, but we need to speak the language of numbers: the number of territories we liberated during the summer campaign is higher than any other brigade. We are ready to continue sharing our experience both in assaults and in creating a healthy atmosphere in the unit. And I believe it is the most important basic factor during the war. It is one thing to fight alongside those you trust and realize that your commanders share your joys, pain and despair, and another to fight in a static environment where you cannot see the future. So I invite everyone to join us.
- As a commander, you have a great responsibility for your fighters. One of the brigadiers once told me a great phrase: "Soldiers are not matches to be burned in whole boxes." What difficult decisions have you had to make?
- I'll tell you frankly: any assault operation is a difficult decision at the start because it assumes that everyone will most likely not return from it. According to the book, an assault should be carried out by forces that outnumber the enemy - if not in a city or village, then three times, and even five times. It is not only about the number of personnel but also the necessary means. We have managed to carry out offensive operations that, on the contrary, were three to five times smaller than the enemy's. We realize that there will be dead and wounded - there is no avoiding it. We can say that we will all die and refuse to go to war. But in such circumstances, we will not only lose the country, but we will all be killed, raped, and tortured anyway. We saw this at the beginning of the full-scale invasion - how the enemy treated civilians, not to mention the military. We can also compare how they treat our prisoners and how we treat theirs. This is a war not just between countries, but between civilizations. It is for a new world order in which certain values will exist. Those confessed by the Russian Federation are anti-values. If we don't take risks, if we don't move forward, we will all die-not only the military, but also our mothers, children, and relatives. Of course, everyone is ready to take risks to prevent this from happening.
- The operation to liberate Andriivka was very risky and difficult. You were one of those who led it. What was the most difficult part? In general and for you personally.
- Any advance involves pulling up logistics, heavy weapons, and changing the situation because you cannot advance without changing it for the entire unit. At the same time, there are losses and wounded. Sometimes you have to make a decision: you move on, but you have problems with logistics, which can lead to casualties, but you will liberate, for example, a few more square kilometers, or you stop, get a foothold and continue planning, realizing that the enemy will build new lines of defense during this time, which will have to be broken through, losing human lives. In this case, the most difficult thing is to determine when to stop and gain a foothold in order to plan the next assault operations.
- On September 14, the day before the official announcement of the liberation of Andriivka, your brigade used a UAV with a loudspeaker to announce an ultimatum to the enemy: capture or death. The Russians heard your voice. Whose idea was it?
- It was the idea of Brigade commander Andrii Biletskyi. It was his long-standing idea, which we supported and implemented at the right time.
- How many people surrendered?
- If I'm not mistaken, it was four. When this was happening, their artillery started working, and they "killed" their own. It was very epic because everyone was standing in an open area. It's an illustrative situation because for them, shooting at their own is a normal topic. It characterizes them well.
You know, many people think that we have too loyal an attitude towards prisoners. First of all, as I said, we have worldview values and guidelines. We should not behave like an enemy who does not have them. Second, for us, every enemy prisoner of war is an opportunity to get ours in exchange. This has a great sacred meaning, as many of our military comrades, including those from Azovstal, are in captivity. In addition to the return of Ukrainian territories, we see the release of all prisoners as one of our main tasks. Therefore, every enemy soldier whom we can capture and exchange instead of killing is important to us. I won't say it's easy to shoot someone or hit them with artillery. But it is still easier than taking them in captivity.
- I saw your post that you talked to the Russian commander Shaitan, who was captured. It's clear that you can't tell us the details. Let me ask you this: what conclusions did you draw after that?
- I was interested in this communication at the level of battalion commanders - how they go about the process of combat and moral and psychological training, how they organize logistics, how artillery and surveillance equipment work. He was very responsible for all these processes. Shaitan was a hereditary officer, a professional who took his duties seriously. We are not talking about motivation now - this is always a separate issue. He was unlucky to be in the 72nd Brigade of the Russian Armed Forces, where the brigadier is a complete stupid f#ck.
The main conclusion I made for myself was that their armed forces are not diverse. There are both professionals and stupid f#cks. This all scales up to higher levels. We also talked to a company commander from another brigade. For example, Shaitan even conducted company tactical exercises, while he hardly ever organized even individual training. For us, it is good that they do not have a systematic approach to combat coordination. But we are learning, and the enemy is learning. Everyone wants to live, so they start thinking about how to survive. However, the realization comes to each person at a different time. For example, I said that all Ukrainians will have to fight. Therefore, if I were in the place of those who are not yet at the front, I would not waste time.
You know, at the beginning of the full-scale invasion, there was a big problem when the media was saying that the enemy was degenerate, stupid, weak, and unable to understand anything. In fact, this is a fake. During any war, propaganda shows the enemy from this angle. Sometimes it has a positive result. But I think in our case, it played a negative role and greatly relaxed Ukrainians.
- What kind of Russians are on the battlefield now? How are they fighting?
- They are different. As I like to say in general: there are no bad soldiers, only bad commanders. A person can be very motivated, but get into a bad environment, and nothing will come of it. And then there is the average person who has never thought about war, who will find himself in a great unit, start growing and reach the level of a great warrior. That is why I would like to emphasize once again that I would like to invite everyone to the 3rd Assault Brigade. We are ready to teach, show, give everything we know, never to set you up or abandon you.
- And how often does the enemy use the so-called "meat assaults" that used to be quite frequent?
- Sometimes. But, as I said, today there is more use of attack drones. In this regard, the nature of the war has changed. But I will say this, which is an axiom in any time of war: we have different branches of the armed forces, specialties, but in the end, it is the infantry that takes and holds the positions. Therefore, despite the technological growth in the military industry, they will always remain the people who put an end to any military conflict.
- Please cast your mind back to the most difficult battle for you.
- Moshchun was the most difficult battle of this war. The enemy saw it as a bridgehead for further advancement to Horenka, Pushcha, and further to Kyiv. This was the operational direction. At that time, the 72nd Brigade, we, being the Azov-Kyiv Territorial Defense Forces and the DIU held the village, which was very difficult. There was a continuous stream of artillery shelling, enemy air arm sorties, assaults and a huge number of " Orlans". I had just become a battalion commander. I received a new unit of volunteer fighters who came when they heard about the full-scale invasion and decided to join us. Most of them had no combat experience at that time. But we spent a few days having team training and went to Moshchun, which we then defended. There were many difficult moments during the war, but I would single out this one as the most difficult. It gave me a lot of experience, skills and abilities that I still use in managing the unit.
- You used to say that you had a dream: to cut off Putin's head. Has it not changed?
-No. You know, a dream should remain a dream. It is so childish and naive. Now many people say that Putin is gone and that Patrushev is in charge. But it doesn't matter who is doing it. We do not personify evil. We understand that it is the Russian Empire. It doesn't matter whose face it has-Putin's, Patrushev's, or anyone else's. Their narratives show that they want to destroy us.
Look, any empire can either grow or sooner or later dissolve due to internal conflicts. These are the principles of its existence. We understand that what was happening in Russia on "Swampy" Square had the potential to become a factor in the dissolution of the Russian Federation. To prevent this from happening, the government found an external enemy and formed a certain ideology of the Russian world, which very strangely exists among people who are not Russian at all. Its followers are the majority of the population of the Russian Federation. That is why I say that I would not personify evil.
We must not forget that history is written by the winners. In order for us to be able to win, we must not personalize the enemy. I assume that these are the methods and mechanisms that someone will manipulate to conclude a temporary peace agreement. But we do not need it today, because it will eventually destroy us. We need to study and analyze history. If we do not do this, we will not have a Ukrainian state.
If you would like to support the 3rd Assault Brigade, there are still fundraisers available: https://www.supportazov.com/fundraisers
Olha Moskaliuk, Censor.NET
Photo: social media of Dmytro Kukharchuk
