Oleh Karsim: "FPV or "Bat" pilot cannot win war. He can level everything to ground, dismantle dugouts, but he will not go to gain footing."

Author: Olha Moskaliuk

Oleh Karsim is only 24 years old and has been at war for two years. Today, he commands the RUBAK unit of the Bohdan Khmelnytskyi Separate Presidential Brigade. He flies attack drones, which the Russians fear and call "Baba Yaga". He has the call sign Khan. He chose it when he first served in the 95th Brigade. He took the name of one of the characters in the world-famous Fast and Furious as an analogy.

- How did you go to this war?

- It all started with a full-scale offensive on the morning of 24 February 2022. I had a very sound sleep, so I didn't immediately hear the missile or the air defense. My mum woke me up and said: "Kyiv is being bombed!". I went to work. I saw very long queues for petrol. People were in a hurry. The marshrutkas (a kitschy type of shared taxi particular to ex-Soviet states - ed. note) were not running. Since we live outside the city, I walked to Troieshchyna (a large neighborhood of Kyiv - ed. note). There I took a bus and got to work. We all had the news on our laptops - we were following what was happening. The next day, I signed up for the local TDF (Territorial Defense Forces). I did not take part in the fighting then. When the troops withdrew from Kyiv, many people went home, and I went to "storm" the military enlistment office. At first, there was a medical examination. I took the phone number of the military commissariat and called him every day. In a week, he told me to come. We were sent to the 95th Brigade. They said: "They will make you into Rambo" (smiles - O.M.). Two shootings later, we went to Donbas. 

- Did you know how to shoot before? Did you have any training?

- Yes, I performed my compulsory military service. In June 2021, I returned home, and nine months later, a full-scale war started. But my training was enough to take up arms.

- Did you understand that such a large-scale war was possible?

- I didn't think it would be on so large scale. We were transported by ordinary buses, the kind they use in Kyiv. It took us a day to get there. We arrived at night. I open the map and look at the geolocation: 40 kilometers to Donetsk. I thought: "They're going to hit us with Grads!" We were divided into units. Then we started to get into the positions little by little. Some of us got there the next day, others, like us, in a week. We were loaded into a truck. They drove us along the Izium highway. We were unloaded in one of the villages and left for three days. It was not at the very front line, but close. We were a little over twenty. It was good that there were older people who took stew and dry rations with them because we had been told not to take anything before. It all disappeared quickly. The boys stayed in the houses, and I went around the village collecting eggs. People left the village, but the farm was left behind. I also found the "home-made canned vegetables". We spent three days like that. Then the command came to us.

- Were there any attacks?

- There were. It was the first time I got to know our aviation. It was powerful (smiles - O.M.). However, I did not know that they were ours.

-New experiences for you.

- I went outside. A plane is flying. I fell down. And he started throwing his "traps". I didn't know what they were. I thought they were missiles. I ran into the house and told the boys. They started laughing: "That's our plane!" Five minutes later, I went out again - Grads came. I fell again. Then I went back to the house. There was nothing inside, just Karrimats. I looked: a window glass flew right at mine. The bonding plaster also fell off. But it's good that we had such acclimatization then, and not immediately thrown into combat. That's why no one lost motivation.  Everyone successfully got into and out of their positions. Then we defended the stele on the Izium highway. We were in the village of Dovhenke. The experience was unforgettable. 

-Why?

- It was hard because we had seen war in the trenches before, but not without them. It was two months after we had acclimatized to Donbas. Here we had to hold the defense for rotation. We got out for three days. On the third day, I took off my shoes, and my feet had no skin on them - they came off. We drank only water, which we didn't have much of, and we didn't want to eat at all. Then we stood in a defensive position along the road. We had regular rotations, like everyone else. Then the offensive began - Balakliia, Izium. The air assault troops were among the first to cross the Siverskyi Donets. And so the offensive continued.

- I take it you didn't start flying right away?

- No, it didn't start right away. It all started around July 2022, when a friend wrote to me asking if I needed anything. He worked for an IT company where they started organizing meetings. At first, I said we had everything. Then I saw that the war was being modernized. When you're sitting on a plantation, a mortar is firing at you from behind the mountain, you can't reach it. You can't move to the right or left either. Then I asked my friend for the first Mavic. They sent it to me. I started to figure it out. I started flying a little bit. Then I started to drop.

-Did you figure it out on your own?

- I looked it up on the Internet. There was already enough relevant video. The guys were already flying, making drops. We saw that someone was dropping VOGs (grenade launcher fragmentation rounds). So we did it too. We even broke them with an axe, having previously unscrewed the detonator. Little by little, we figured out how it explodes. Sometimes it didn't happen. Mistakes always happen when you are learning. The first Mavic was destroyed, the second one was destroyed. That's how we came up with the "Bats". 

- Do you remember the successful flight on the Mavic?

- There was no such one (smiles - O.M.). Everything ended up on blocks and bottles.

- Why did you choose "Bat"? I read that it is called a monster.

- "Baba Yaga" is like all rotary-type attack drones. It was not our idea, but theirs (Russians. - O.M.). Now there are more and more of these devices. You can fly them. Some are better, some are a little worse. Some are being modernized and improved.

- How did you fly the Bat for the first time?

- The first flight was something special! The people in my brigade had not been under fire yet. I went with them as a group leader. We arrived at the direction. We were met there. We began to understand the terrain, reconnaissance, and shells. At first, I took people out a little at a time so that they could understand what war is. Then we all left together. But the problem was that we couldn't take off for a month.

-Why?

- Something was always going wrong - heavy fog, rain, or the roads were washed away. The drone is large. I found a position, determined how to put the antenna, where we would take off and where we would fly approximately. But we did not reach the position. The power line was cut. There was a large puddle after the hit, into which the car flew, and the power line wrapped around the wheel. We spent the whole landing pulling it out - guys from both the TDF and reconnaissance units. Many thanks to them for their help! It took about 20 minutes. We got it out. We started to prepare. The driver drove off. We went into the dugout, and the attacks started. The first hit - the debris flew into the "Bat". So we did not take off.

- When was the last successful flight?

- The next one. We arrived at almost the same point. In a day, so that nothing would go wrong. We didn't tell anyone that we were going to go and bomb. We did it quietly. We cleared the place to install the antenna, set up the drone and flew away. To be honest, I didn't realize that we had bombed anything. The guys were worried. I was worried too. But the result was successful and spectacular. I realized it when the drone had already landed. Then I was overwhelmed with emotions. They were so overwhelming that I just couldn't take off the second time.

- Were you worried?

- No! I was so excited that it was possible (smiles - O.M.). In 2022, I saw a lot of videos, but I had no idea that I could bomb something like that with my own hands. I had something to compare it to. Since 2022, I have noticed how much the war has changed. In particular, in the use of FPV drones. When I met them, it was not a very pleasant meeting. The first one exploded near us, but we managed to run to the dugout. The second one was a little further away, but it did not explode. But our FPVs also play an important role. 

- All the military say that the Russians have a lot of drones.

- Yes. There are really a lot of FPVs. But there's nothing you can do about it: the one who scales wins. Therefore, we need to focus on robotic systems and increasing the number of aircraft. Then there will be some sense. Those who just invent something do not win. We need to scale it up. Ukraine has invented a lot of drones. Some of them have no analogues. But if they are not scaled up, there will be no result. Two drones on a direction will not solve anything. We need much more.

- Not so long ago, Minister of Digital Transformation Mykhailo Fedorov called on Ukrainians to build FPV drones...

- FPV is not easy. There are more and more pilots - someone is blocking communication with someone else. As the number of FPVs grows, the number of electronic warfare systems also increases. Both on our and their positions. Drones are falling. There is nothing you can do about it.

-What is the most difficult part of your job?

- The road to the position. If we take the first road we drove on as an example, it was off-road. And we started in the autumn, for the winter. The roads were washed away. Yes, we have a new car - the government provided us with a new L-200. But the fact is that it is also difficult to get to places where there are no roads. That's why we preferred the 'loaf'.

In addition, their FPV, in particular night FPV, is an obstacle to our work.

-What do you like the most?

- Then watch the video of the destruction.

- "I love the way it burns."

- (Laughs. - O.M.) Yes, yes! It's really fun to watch such videos. But you shouldn't forget about the quality of your flight. It may not be a very spectacular explosion, but it will be of considerable benefit. On the video, someone from the Mavic did not see the explosion, but it flew under the camouflage net. Something like that. That's why I prefer not to make spectacular videos, but to work with benefit. 

-Do you also perform an "after-action review"?

- Of course! For the first three weeks, I slept with a tablet. Because the terrain was very mountainous. It was difficult to choose a position with a good radio horizon. So I had to spend a lot of time looking for a place to take off.

- Boast of your best shot. What did you hit that was so "bold"?

- All my targets are manpower and what the infantry uses: mortars, machine guns, AGSs. We have very few of their vehicles, because, as I said, the terrain is mountainous...

- Where is it?

- Near Soledar. They have more manpower there. If there is equipment, it is reachless.

- Is it because of the distance?

- Yes. By the time I take off, even if I squeeze as much as possible out of the drone, I won't be in time. Plus, they learn a lot from us - they unload far away, throw everything away and walk. So all my targets are stationary. They have to be standing. It makes it easier to work. It is difficult to hit a moving target with such a drone. Now we have a task to "nightmare" the infantry. For the time being. It is clear that earlier we hit the equipment more because it came very close. I saw with my own eyes how a tank would drive up to us at a distance of 600-800 meters and shoot at our positions. Today, this does not happen anymore. The equipment is afraid. Unless they go to assault operations in columns across the fields. And when there are some rotations or an impenetrable defense, it is very difficult to snatch such a trophy. 

- I heard in an interview that Baba Yaga is called "death that flaps in the night"...

- Of course, because they are loud. For example, I would be scared if a drone like that flew over me. It's very large. You can hear it from a kilometre away. The crews are hunted, both during the day and at night. Because the first enemy of infantry in general is who? The pilots. That is why they are hunted. They even give rewards.

- Do you happen to know how much money or incentives are there?

- For a downed drone, we get a vacation and a cash reward.

-So they are trying, aren`t they?

- There were hits. My drone was hit. But it still came back. I have been flying it for almost six months now. I've been through a lot - flying in the snow, storm and fog, getting hit by debris and bullets. When I bring it to the manufacturer for repairs, everyone laughs kindly: "Again with him!" The manufacturer makes me advances and helps. I think everyone does that. It's just that I cooperate with a particular one, so I can talk about him. It's good to have such a contact. Otherwise, they won't be able to get feedback and improve. And this is necessary. Although something new is always coming up.

- So there is development, isn`t there?

- I would say that it is personal. Everyone develops independently. It would be cool if this development became widespread.

- How do you work with new products?

-When it comes to modernization, this is nothing new. Flying such drones is not complicated. You have the same type of connection, joysticks and a few toggle switches, and that's it. You just need to hone your skills, when and what to press - how and when to aim, how to fly to the place, what to do when the wind suddenly blows. There was a time when I had to fly nine and a half kilometers, and my battery started to drain, so I started to drop ammunition load in the field to fly. When the weight decreases, the voltage increases slightly and you can achieve your goal.

- You wrote that "every flight is an emotional cocktail". What emotions does it consist of?

- We always have some kind of adventure (smiles - O.M.). For example, an FPV will fly near us. We had to fit out the drone. We found a cape. Under it, our external pilot with a flashlight attached an ammunition package. I was sitting on a canister in the trench. The position is not very camouflaged. An FPV flies near us at an altitude of about five meters. My eyes followed it (smiles - O.M.). We continue working.

When electronic warfare is activated, it's also a lot of emotions. Although our drone is such that it is not afraid of it in some moments. When they turn it on, they just suppress the image. But the drone is flying. If something happens, it will return to the takeoff point. In most cases, it should do so.

- And how do you feel when attack drones fly over you, as you just told us about the FPV incident? Is it scary?

- If I say it's not scary, it would be a lie. The main thing is not to panic. Although at first, you don't understand anything at all. Only later you realize that it could have been different. I recently talked to a fellow soldier. He said he hadn't seen a single guy who boasted of having burned 10-20 pieces of equipment. Everyone talks about how they took the rap. (smiles - O.M.).

- I saw a photo of a Russian drone on your Telegram channel. Where did you get it?

- It came after us, but it didn't explode. They used a flammable cord that didn't reach the detonator and blacked out

-So the drone was of poor quality, was it?

- If it reached us, it was of high quality. The munition just didn't explode. It also happens that there is no detonation. No one is safe from this. For example, if you take mines that work on inertia, there is a one hundred per cent explosion. If there is an impact and inertia, there is a certain amount of non-detonation. They (the Russians - O.M.) have the same. It's the same as with ammunition - mines arrive but don't explode. It's a war. Who is not mistaken? Sometimes it's a factory defect or someone has done something wrong. 

- In a conversation with me, military officer Denys Nahornyi said that due to the number of drones at the front, the war will soon turn subterranean. Do you see this trend?

- Yes, I do. We stayed at the position for a day. We have a road there. Drones fly over it every 15-20 minutes. If there is an action, there is also a counteraction. This is us coming back to the topic of scaling. If the electronic warfare is working, no one flies anywhere. I would really like to see the supply of these drones to be massive. Just like production. When I arrived at the position in October, I immediately thought about this issue. Because you can simply not get to the place because of Russian FPVs. And if your car is hit by a kamikaze drone, you don't need drones anymore

- In February, the president announced that we are creating an Unmanned Systems Forces. Would you like to join?

- I would like to. There is a desire to gather a group of my own. But the question is in what format it will be done. At the moment, we have newly created shock battalions and companies. How will they be supported? Will there be new pilots? We need to get funds from somewhere. It's better to have ten drones in one crew than three crews with four drones each. We need to start with the equipment.

- We are not doing as well as we would like in this regard.

- You know, I am a very strong pessimist. But I wouldn't say that things are very bad here. Yes, there are problems with the availability of shells. However, the state has started supplying drones. Volunteers are helping. Everything is being somehow settled.

- How would you characterize the current situation at the front?

- The tactics used by the enemy suit them. They are achieving their goals of the so-called "Special Military Operations (SMO)" at times. This is how they put together puzzles: one to the second, the third - and Bakhmut, Soledar, Avdiivka are already there.

- Now they are actively storming Chasiv Yar...

- They will definitely not stop. They took Soledar and are advancing. It's the same with Avdiivka. They occupied a village, and another one will follow. It doesn't matter how many casualties they suffer - they don't count people or equipment. Again, like with drones, this is a matter of scaling. But we have to understand that an FPV or "Bat" pilot cannot win a war. Just like a mortar launcher cannot throw a mine and then run and fire a 155-calibre in two minutes. A pilot can level everything to the ground, dismantle dugouts, but he will not go to gain a footing.

- We need infantry.

- And it's hard for her. I watch the guys rotate at night. For them to get to their positions alive and well, we need electronic warfare to shoot down enemy drones. It is also necessary that commanders, pilots, and those on the ground are in constant contact with each other. Otherwise, you can't "have cake and eat it too". It will not be done.

- You are right that the Russians are not going to stop. This is clear from their rhetoric, behaviour and the situation at the front. We often discuss now that they are preparing a powerful offensive in different directions for late spring and early summer. What do you think about this?

- Since 2022, I have seen a tendency: such offensives began in autumn and ended in spring. I came up with this formula for myself. Maybe it's wrong. But there are offensives all the time. They do not stop. So do ours. But how do we advance? Some plantings were сaptured, some positions were сaptured. It is not easy. Often, it's all about logistics - it's hard to supply food and ammunition. For example, there was only one asphalt road to Avdiivka. So we took it under control. How can you drive pickup trucks to the fields? By the way, there is also FPV there. If not the night ones, then the day ones will hit you. It's hard to hide. Moreover, there are always wings in the air: "Eagles, Zala, SuperCam. There was never a trip where we didn't hear someone at night. Yes, we have to hide somehow. But there are a lot of them - there is no shortage. And the drones are good. We have some of them too - the same Leleks and Valkyries. I repeat: it's all about scale and quantity. But it is clear that we are struggling. 

- That is why we need to replenish our resources, including human resources. Recently, the law on mobilization was finally passed. However, before the vote, the provision on demobilization was removed from it, which caused a lot of noise. So you are still left without a replacement...

- But the mobilization did not end. It's been going on since February 24, 2022, and it's still going on. It's bad that the news shows how someone was caught and shoved into a minibus. It is better to show how people go to the TCR (Territorial Centre for Recruitment) themselves. Yes, there are not too many motivated people who have already made up their minds and prepared themselves mentally. But people see the trend: they shove, they force. They think: if they don't want to go, why should I?

- Is the communication structured incorrectly?

- This is a problem of society and the media. As for demobilization, you said it right: the law on mobilization...

- But it originally contained a provision on demobilization!

- This requires a separate document. If they had adopted it before the law on mobilization, there would have been no fuss.

- But you want to at least take a break...

- I want to! I want to go home, to see my girlfriend and mum. And a peaceful Kyiv. I was on my way to see you and was a little late because I forgot what Kyiv traffic jams are like. But if they had said: "Guys, this is the third year of a full-scale war. We will adopt the law, but demobilization will take about two years. Sorry, that's the way it is". Perhaps, they could have backed it up with some social benefits, incentives. People need motivation. And soldiers need victories. Who are the people in the trenches? Soldiers, sergeants, lower-ranking officers. They need victories. If they don't have them, no law on mobilization or demobilization will motivate them.

P.S.: Dear friends, if you would like to help Oleh's team with the purchase of a Matrice 30e, here are the details: Link to the bank https://send.monobank.ua/jar/77NUbTQ1kq Paypal: [email protected] Bank card number 5375 4112 1732 7894

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Olha Moskaliuk, Censor.NET

Photos are provided by Oleh Karsim