"We need to stop enemy with whole country, not in way it is now: in one part of country war is ongoing, and in another part, it is not," - National Guard Officer Mykhailo Vernyhora
Battles in Mariupol and an injury during an attempt to evacuate a Ukrainian soldier, amputation of an arm at Azovstal, captivity, release, adaptation, rehabilitation, and service again. This has been the path of Mykhailo Vernyhora, a National Guard Officer, since 2022. However, for him, the war began in 2014, with preparations for the liberation of Sloviansk in Donetsk region. And despite the loss of his arm, his fight continues.
He spoke frankly with Anna Miroshnychenko about Azovstal, Russians, captivity, service, comrades-in-arms and those hiding from the war. In the program "Who is with Miroshnychenko?" Mykhailo Vernyhora, an Officer of the National Guard, told how he sees the war and what is needed to end it.
ABOUT THE PROSTHESIS
- You came to the interview without a prosthesis, we talked to you before, you are not comfortable, you do not want to wear it, don't you?
- Now my job is more sedentary and you have extra weight, which is constantly there, and puts a little pressure on your back, and in the evening my back starts to hurt, so when you just sit and do nothing, it's not comfortable with it, but in principle, if you use it in everyday life, you also need to learn. It's just that for a long period of time I was without a prosthesis and got used to not having a prosthesis, you have already gotten used to doing some things with one hand, what people do with two hands, you do with one. And when you're already with a prosthesis, maybe it's our laziness, because with a prosthesis you need to learn.
- Are you still uncomfortable with it? To what can't you get used to?
- There is no such thing anymore, driving, in principle, I had almost no practice driving with two hands, that is, this is the first car, I bought it without my left limb, I got in and drove and it was fine.
ABOUT THE BATTLE FOR MARIUPOL AND INJURIES
- Let's talk about your injury. How were you injured in Mariupol?
- The day started very badly, we were already in the private sector and had to occupy one of the streets, and when the last group went, everyone had their own points, their own positions, the last group went to take their positions and they were caught in an ambush, we understood that there was already an enemy there, we did not understand where the fire was coming from, but we understood that there was an enemy there and we could not occupy it, so we retreated. And then it was decided to move up the street because the street below was already under control. We watched, we did not find the enemy, but we knew that he was there somewhere, and from the previous group that was caught in an ambush, one was killed immediately and one was wounded. And our task was to carry him out of there. He had a radio station, we kept in touch, and at first he could not orientate us, where he was at least approximately. We went, me and another lieutenant colonel from the border guard service, lieutenant colonel Oleksandr Tarasenko, went in, not knowing where the fire was coming from or where the enemy was, but we had to carry him out, and we succeeded, we carried him out. An observer saw some movement in the yard we were walking in. And the best option was to look from the opposite house, which was a little higher, so I went to that house. When I started to enter that house, I immediately got shot at, it turned out that the enemy was already there. I got about five or six hits in the arm from a distance of 3-4 metres, a submachine gun burst. The group was equipped, most likely, it was their Russian Military Intelligence special unit.
ABOUT AZOVSTAL AND AMPUTATION
- After you were injured, you came to Azovstal, who helped you?
- Surgeons.
- How did it go?
- One of them is Yevhenii Petrovych Herasimenko and Andrii Oleksiiovych Albov. Herasymenko is the surgeon who flew to the besieged Mariupol by helicopter to provide assistance.
- Under what conditions did this happen, were there any medicines?
- At that time, there were still medicines, because I was under anaesthesia.
- That is, you...
- They amputated my arm there, in the Azovstal bunker, and there was still anaesthesia, I was anaesthetised, and I woke up without my arm. The conditions? It was a small room, maybe three by five metres. There was a table there. This was the only room with tiles, the rest of the bunker was just ground, there was dust all the time. The wounded lying down had no opportunity to wash themselves, even to wash their faces, there were some wet napkins somewhere, but their skin was grey, just mud. When there was a hit at this bunker and the bunker was partially damaged, we were distributed to other bunkers. It was also a very risky idea, without armour protection, with one hand on the collapsed Azovstal: you walk somewhere underground, somewhere through rubble, somewhere through metal.
- Was there a chance of not reaching the bunker?
- We were constantly being bombed, drones were constantly flying, it was like a lottery - lucky or unlucky. For example, food - there was no possibility to cook in the bunker where the wounded were kept, so they brought it from another bunker. And often, the wounded simply applauded the guys from the other bunker who brought the food, because there were cases when 5 people came, thank God they made it, but two of them returned to the bunker, and three remained wounded.
- What is the most frightening image you have in your mind, any association with Azovstal?
- The very stay at Azovstal was a terrible picture, and in the bunker where the wounded were kept, where there were almost no medicines or bandages, when they just unbandaged the wound and there were worms crawling around... As for food - a disposable cup, half a cup of cooked porridge a day. But the man is wounded, he needs recovery and vitamins. The bunker where the wounded were kept was shelled round the clock. There was no way to bring in food.
- You are now telling such a horror story, I think that many people have already forgotten this story.
- Yes.
ABOUT СAPTIVITY
- It's true that this is forgotten, some other episodes appear, but I'm actually very grateful to you for your memories. I think the viewers will thank you for going through all this, coming and reminding us what it was like and what war is.
- You know, there is one thing that has been forgotten. There are still a lot of guys in captivity from the Mariupol garrison, a lot of them. And the local population, ours, they think that everyone has been released. The Mariupol garrison, 70-80 per cent are still in captivity.
- Do you know what happened to them?
- Some of them we know where they are, but we don't know their health status, and these people have been there for two years. And there were those who were captured in March at the positions, some in April.
- You were also a prisoner of war, and you left Azovstal and ended up in captivity. How long did you spend there?
- I was there for a month and a half. Actually, I did not expect to be exchanged so quickly because I am an officer. But as it turned out, they were not interested in people like me, people with amputations, and so the first exchange included 100 seriously wounded people who were in other hospitals in Donetsk and Luhansk, and 22 people from Olenivka, 16 of them with amputations. In the first exchange, they gave all the amputees from Olenivka, they called us the "eternal 300th". In other words, a person who will no longer be in the ranks to fight and who is not interesting to them.
- Did they say in captivity, "this is what you fought for"?
- Of course.
- What was the general attitude?
- It was ambivalent. The period we were there, the first month and a half or two months, I had the feeling that they were being held back, there was no сommand. Yes, there was moral humiliation.
- Are these statements?
- The statements, the morning anthems of the Russian Federation, then the moral humiliation - you are all there. They tried to prove that our country does not need us, that's it, we have already captured Kyiv, we have taken everything, and you are here, the "waste material" for which you fought, your country does not need you. When you are constantly told this, it also has its effect... At the time I was with those guys, they didn't believe it. But if you've been told this for two years, it's not a given that you won't believe it.
- Are you talking about those who are now in captivity?
- Yes. If you are repeated for two years and you are not exchanged for two years, then you start to believe. When you were needed, yes, you worked, and then that's it, you're just waste material. So, people, this is just my opinion, not everyone is so morally stable. And even those who are morally strong... you can break anyone.
RELEASE FROM CAPTIVITY
- Do you remember how you met your family?
- Yes.
- With children. What were your feelings?
- The first is fear. I was afraid of how they would accept me, how the children would react. My wife supported me, saying, 'Don't worry, everything will be fine, we'll cope with everything together.
- And what about the children?
- Again, my wife is a good person, I am grateful to her at all stages of my life, she supports me, she helps me and I think she prepared the children. Yes, there were a few tears, literally 5-10 minutes, and then a normal conversation. The older one didn't say anything, but my younger daughter was holding my arm, it covered in bandages, but she didn't ask me anything, just held my arm - does it hurt? I said, "No, it's fine. And then, when they were driving, my daughter asked my wife when they got into the car: "Mom, when will they make a hand for Dad?"
ABOUT THE CRIMES OF THE RUSSIANS
- Were there any conditions under which you could forgive the Russians?
- No, not at all. What do you mean? When there is a total elimination of civilians and non-civilians. When you drive through the city, and instead of trees, there are covered bodies lying all over the street, because at first there was information that they would be taken away and taken somewhere. And then it got warmer, and people started making communal graves in the yards and burying them. How can you forget or forgive something like that?
One driver, why he fixed tightly by driving in wedges, went outside and spent the night in his car, which was in a hangar, and at night there were two airplane hits, there was a shell crater there, it was a trash. We came, and I was looking for something missing, and then I realized that the two hangars were simply gone, and we got closer - only the bottom, the frame itself, was left of the car. And he was sleeping in the cab, and we found nothing at all.
- It's scary.
- These are the stories that you remember for the rest of your life, and the most interesting thing is the smallest details. You see some moments in front of you all the time, you play over them, you remember them and they never leave your mind. You remember them for the rest of your life. So, the day I was wounded, I remember almost hour by hour.
WHAT IS NEEDED TO WIN
- When do you think Russia can stop? How do we stop Russia? I ask this question given the latest news that we have support from our Western partners, thank God. How to stop, how to win - do you see a certain way now?
- We need to stop and win as a country, not the way we are now. There is a war in one part of the country, and not in another, and everything is fine in the rest. In some areas, everything is fine. They were doing well in August 2022, they are doing well, there is no war there because there are no hits, there are no constant hostilities, no constant air raid alerts. And so until all people understand that either we live in our free country, or we are feeding who knows who and how. Until everyone realizes and unites, and not like this: "Why should I fight?"
- It offends you when you see such episodes or when you hear someone say, "What am I going to fight for?"
- Of course, it's offensive when one person is shell-shocked three times, wounded four times, and still goes there, while the other is sitting there, has a disability, and he is so tough guy, he is strong like bull. When people flee and go abroad, it's understandable, but there are those who just relocate. One soldier, who comes from western Ukraine, served conscript service, signed a contract, fought in the Zaporizhzhia direction, and when he was wounded and went to western Ukraine for rehabilitation and saw a bunch of big healthy men, 35-40 years old and doing well in life because they had fled from Zaporizhzhia region, he said right: "Why should I go there to fight? They are hiding here and everything is fine." And so it is everywhere, and there are many such cases. It's just that until people understand that this is not a war of one person, but a full-scale war, and until we all start fighting this enemy together, we will continue to live in serfdom and depend on the opinions of others. We will not be allowed to make independent decisions, we will just dance to someone else's tune.
- Would you consider not wearing a military uniform again? According to your performance, you might not serve anymore?
- I could have done without the uniform, but I would still be doing something, looking for something, helping the guys who were discharged somewhere. I couldn't just sit around, rest and wait for something to happen. Why did you need all that we did? Why are the guys doing so much now? Why is all this being done to just sit down and rest one day? It's not right.
- Have you ever regretted putting on a military uniform back in the 2000s?
- No, I've never regretted it at all. And if time was turned back, I would do everything exactly the same. I would not change anything in terms of the military. Perhaps somewhere in my personal life, in my civilian life, there were some moments that I would not have done, because there are cases for which I am very sorry, this is my civilian life, I would not have done these moments, but as for military participation, no. For me, this war started in 2014. On 2 June 2014, I was already near Sloviansk and took part in the preparation of Sloviansk for liberation, so for me personally, it has been going on since 2014.
- How long will it last, years?
- Years. It won't happen that quickly, especially since, as they say, you don't need enemies with such a neighbour. We used to be friends, but now it's, I don't even know what to call it. It is so cynical and insidious. I had a commander with me at the time, Colonel Apukhtin Dmytro Oleksandrovych, a Hero of Ukraine, and he always said, since 2014, that they would not let us live, and we should simply destroy them. And so it happened. Whether it was envy or not, I don't know what to call it.
- Are we done here, or do you want to address the Ukrainians again?
- I have already said everything.
- I think those who are watching the interview, friends, please write what you think, the hero addressed you, and you addressed the hero. I think there will definitely be words of gratitude and wishes for your health.
- Somewhere else, they'll badmouth a little more, as usual.
- Let it be.
- The mentality is such a shitty one, to prove something, somewhere, to someone. And to do something, it's easier to sit on your phone and write something.
- I am very, very grateful for the conversation. You are, by the way, my countryman and I am very glad to have met you, so stay strong, I think we will hear from you again somewhere.
- Anything can happen.
Anna Miroshnychenko, "Who is with Miroshnichenko?"
