Pavlo Yakimchuk, veteran of SOF of AFU: Issue of mobilization is fucked up... There is war in country, and in order to mobilize people, to unite them, state does nothing, on contrary, it puts huge spokes in wheels
How does a man who wants to serve but is "temporarily unfit" feel? Will there be an offensive in Sumy region and why is Russia really attacking Kharkiv region? Should 18-year-old men be mobilized? Pavlo Yakymchuk, a veteran of the Special Operations Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, told Anna Miroshnychenko about corruption and President Zelenskyy’s policy, the defense line, and what to do with draft dodgers. The program "Who is with Miroshnychenko?" touched upon hot topics without censorship.
- How did you perceive the medical conclusion that you are currently temporarily unfit for service?
- Although this is not the first medical conclusion that I am unsuitable, each time it morally puts you in some kind of limits, as if you are a little subhuman. I've talked to many people with disabilities, including Alona Pcholkina, and she's such a positive person, you can't say that about me... Later I got used to this idea, but at first, there was still a feeling of inferiority, you look at yourself, a healthy guy, walking without crutches, and then you are told that the state does not need you, you are unfit. And it scratches at your soul a little bit. But you can live with it.
If you remember, a grenade hit me under the feet. I still have an open wound on my leg, and as it turned out, I have a lot of shrapnel in my left groin. And I have everything stitched up here because I had an autogenous prosthesis, my inguinal artery was broken and I had it completely replaced - from my stomach to my leg. And it is, as the doctor explained to me, like a thin plastic bag sewn together with a hairline, so any sudden movement can tear it all, internal bleeding, and this is the inguinal artery, where you are "200th" in a matter of seconds, so due to it, you are unfit.
- But even with these consequences, did you want to come back?
- Yes, I understand that I am no longer fit for the Air Assault Forces and Special Operations Forces (SOF), I accept and realize this, and I understand that I am unlikely to be able to assault the planting but with my experience, I can definitely be useful somewhere in such a structure as the army in general. I'm not talking about the TCR (Territorial Centre of Recruitment), I'm talking about a bunch of other positions - records management and so on, but with an "unfit" conclusion, you can't even apply for such positions.
- Are you now analyzing the events when you were wounded, thinking about what you could have done differently to avoid being wounded and continue fighting?
- Of course, I have replayed the moment of my injury in my head a thousand times, and now I know what I would have done if I had looked half a second ahead, but there is nothing to return. Yes, I found a way out of the situation, I know what I should have done to avoid being hit by that grenade, but there's nothing you can do to bring anything back.
- In civilian life, it is difficult for you because you want to fight, but you cannot. There are people around you who can fight, but don't want to. I'm getting to the topic of mobilization, which we will, of course, talk about.
- This is probably suffering bumps and bruises the most because the issue of fucked up mobilization is so painful - and you look at the state, you realize that the country is at war, and in order to mobilize people, to unite them, the state does exactly nothing, on the contrary, it puts huge spokes in the wheels. Corruption, we've talked about this before, and this issue hasn't disappeared, and it's growing. People see it, people watch how millions are stolen and how the children of People`s Deputies are well-fixed, how they drive around Kyiv in Benz trucks at night, honestly, I understand these people, no matter how angry I am at them for not wanting to go and defend the state, but I understand them and if I were a little less finished, I would probably be just like them. It's just that what is happening in the country now is absurd. I understand when they build a road near Kostiantynivka, it's understandable because the wounded are evacuated there, it's a flat road, I've been through the Mykolaiv-Odesa road myself, I know what it's like when you're lying down and dying, you're being taken on a shitty road, it's normal. But paving setts, fences, at a time when the guys themselves are buying better equipment, huge amounts of money are being spent in the middle of nowhere, just nowhere. And why are they spent? We all understand that the more you spend, the more you steal, the more you launder. This is normal practice, but it is not normal. And people see this, and naturally, they don't want to mobilize.
- Anyway, the law on mobilization came into force on 18 May, and apparently, I don't know how you traveled here, you could see the checkpoints on the streets of Kyiv. Do you think it will have any effect?
- Сoercion. We are now seeing long queues at the Territorial Centres of Recruitment and Social Support (TCR and SS), people are going to update their registration details. These are the people who are most likely not to serve because they have a deferment. These are the people who go to update their data; before, they simply neglected this duty, but now when the authorities are snapping at their heels, they run to update their data. With a high probability, 90 percent of those who are now standing at TCR will not serve, at least for now, perhaps something will change in the future, but now these people are unfit. If this is not the case, please correct me in the comments. This is my subjective opinion. Plus, I have talked to such people. Now they will just start catching them more rigorously, let's say, checking their documents and taking them away. This is forced. This will not lead to good.
- What is the negative side of forced mobilization, what negative effect can it have?
- The negative effect will be the AWOL, because people who have never held a weapon, who went there against their will, will be very difficult to keep. The only thing I can say for myself is that I have been fighting since 2014 and we had people who joined us, I was a volunteer fighter, in our platoon we had a 50-50 split, 50 volunteer fighters, 50 percent mobilized. And the guys who were mobilized, who, roughly speaking, were forced to join the army at that time, over time, out of 10 guys mobilized, 8 became like-minded with us, that is, time passed, they joined the company, acclimatized - and that's it, the guys already know why they came, why they were mobilized, why they are here, what task they have to perform. But still, there was a percentage of guys who avoided going on assignments in every possible way, who would shirk at the slightest opportunity, and now imagine the number of people who will be forcibly mobilized now and the percentage of AWOL, it will be simply enormous. People need to be motivated, and people are not motivated, but people need to be motivated by an ordinary human attitude. When I go through a military medical commission (MMC) and I am declared "unfit", it means that I am a free man, right? At least logically. I have a "temporarily unfit" conclusion now, for six months. I know that during these six months, I can freely travel abroad because I have a certificate of a person with a disability, I can safely move between regions, move around the city without any problems, but I cannot go abroad, because here I run into bureaucracy, because my conclusion from the district MMC must first be approved by the city MMC, and then by the central one. And then this approval has to be sent back to the Regional TCR, where I will be given a barcode or whatever it is, and this period is 2-3 months, as I was told. For 2-3 months, I'm just chained up, having freedom but not having it, it's creaming my corn, and it's all bureaucracy.
- Those who are now being recruited into the army these days, how will they be met there?
- Fine.
- There will be no "Oh, where have you been for two years or a long time no see"?
- There will be no bullying, no one will bully them, it all depends again on the person. When you come to a new team, the way you treat yourself determines the attitude you get, it all depends on the person who joins a particular department. If he comes in and starts being rude, of course, he will have a response, but if normal guys, adequate guys, understand that there is nowhere to go, we have to defend the country, then they will be treated normally. I even still see a bunch of men on the street, and I have no contempt for them: "I've been at war since 2014, and you, you bastard, are out drinking beer today," God forbid, I don't have that. It is his choice to go or not to go, and if he is taken away by force, we will see.
- What do you see as an adequate punishment for evading mobilization? What should it be? Do you remember the story of the bank card block?
- I support everything that is tough. Because we have a double-edged sword here, and I just want to reflect on this topic right now. People don't want to go to war because of corruption, they are not motivated, they are not helped, and something else later, and when they don't go, they are punished harshly. There must be harshness in any case. Because you have to choose to defend the country anyway. But if you don't want to serve, be useful in the rear. If you see a corrupt official, punch him in the face, turn him over to the police, do something to "remove" him, and not just be uninvolved and then go around complaining that your access to bank cards has been denied - you'll get a response, there should be toughness in any case. You have to be either at war there or at war here, because here the war is even tougher, because at least there you know who your enemy is, and here everyone is wearing embroidered shirts, patriotic, "Glory to Ukraine", damn it, and he's putting stolen dollars in his pockets.
- What do you think, since 18 May, when the law on mobilization came into force, how will this change the situation at the front - I mean, the increase in the number of personnel - first of all. And secondly, how many people should be recruited to the front now?
- First of all, this is not a one-day issue. The fact that the law came into force on the 18th of March means that it will take about two months for people to be recruited, trained and sent to the frontline, and we are talking about the distant future because 2 months in a war is a long way off. I think it's a little bit wrong to look so far ahead. We are still losing in terms of numbers, we do not forget that we are at war against Russia, and no matter how many people we mobilize in Ukraine, there will still be more Russians, no matter how you cut it. That's why I don't really understand the infantry war, as of today, unmanned systems forces have been created, and as of today, they are in the process of being formed, and this is the future. People cannot fill such holes, it must be done with equipment. We are not winning in numbers, and I repeat that no matter how many people we mobilize, it will not help the frontline much, We can deter, yes, but we cannot attack and repel, we want to return Ukraine, at least to the borders of 1991, and at most to take back the Kuban and Belgorod region, I am for that Ukraine, but this should not be done with people, there will just be more crosses in cemeteries and that's it.
- How do you see the age of those mobilized - there are a lot of discussions about this now, and I have heard the idea that they should be mobilized from the age of 18, as an argument that they do not have children, they do not have families, and they are simpler and more enthusiastic.
- Here, I am in favor of mobilization from the age of 18, because at 18 you become a full-fledged citizen, and after boot camp, you can and should think about how to defend your homeland. On the one hand. And on the other hand, this is youth, 18 years old - we are taking away the youth of quite a few people in our generation, I don't know, if we weigh the pros and cons, I'm rather against the idea of mustering up boys from the age of 18, they have to live and at least start thinking about it, if not get married, have children. They're stubborn, no question about it, but still, no. They need to live. I'm against it.
- There are arguments that when older people are taken in, it is difficult for them to work physically, to wear the same armor and all the equipment, and it is somehow easier for younger people.
- I'm 37 years old now, I don't feel like I'm too old to wear body armor, not taking into account my injury and disability group. That is, the age of 40 is even very militant. Please, they should be recruited. I am in favour of recruiting older people, because, first of all, they have already left offspring, they have children, they have already lived a little bit, because this is war, we understand that you can die there. No, I am against the mobilization of boys from the age of 18.
- How do you assess the situation now, particularly in the Kharkiv region? What is happening there and how do you see further developments, let's talk about this region.
- Over the past week, I have seen improvements in terms of the supply of ammunition. In other words, after the US approved the aid package, this aid has been already at the front, I know this because my friends have already started receiving it, the shells have already arrived, the gunpowder and everything else has arrived. Everything is fine here. As for the Kharkiv region itself, I don't think Russia wants to capture Kharkiv as much as it wants to stretch our defense over a large number of kilometres. They will capture Vovchansk if they are successful, and then, of course, they will advance, but it seems to me that they are not aiming to capture Kharkiv right now. Their goal is Kramatorsk, Chasiv Yar, to get to the borders of Donetsk and Luhansk regions, to take it, that's right. Kharkiv region is just to stretch our forces.
- Could another front be opened, particularly in the Sumy region?
- It seems to me that it not only can be opened, it will be opened. In the near future, we will hear the same thing that is happening with Vovchansk, and in the near future it will happen in the Sumy region, because it is stretching the frontline, and this is again a matter of mobilization. We need new brigades to create at least a line of defense. Because we see how fortifications were built in the Kharkiv region, with the dragon's teeth lying right next to the road. I understand perfectly well that it was impossible to build the first line of defence properly because it was constantly under fire, but was it still possible to build the second or third? Yes, it was possible. Who stole the money? Well, someone obviously stole it, I just don't understand.
- Today, by the way, we were recording an interview, and a temporary investigative commission has been set up to investigate the fortifications, do you believe that this body will be effective and that something can be investigated?
- I have not seen who was appointed to the PIC (Provisional Investigatory Commission) but after I see the names of the individual deputies, I will be able to answer whether I believe or not, because it all depends on the people. If they assign like Mamoian and Tyshchenko, I don't believe it, and if they assign Roma Lozynskyi or Roman Kostenko on the panel, I do.
- Do you think the Sumy region is now ready for a possible opening of the front? Have we drawn any conclusions from the Kharkiv region in particular?
- We will not draw any conclusions, we have been fighting for two years now, we are stepping on the same rake, we are not drawing any conclusions.
- Why?
- I don't know, I have a question for the top. Why? If we draw conclusions, we will start doing something right, but there are no conclusions. Yermak and Tatarov are there, but there are no conclusions, although it should have been the other way round, there should have been conclusions, and these two bastards should not have been there.
- In our previous conversation, you said that we must first defeat the external enemy and then the internal enemy.
- I was wrong.
- You were wrong.
- Yes. As of today, after living in the rear for 10 months and reading a bunch of investigations by the UP, Tkach, Bihus, as of today, I already believe in something else, I believe that if we do not overcome corruption inside the country, we will never win the war, especially against Russia. No, we just need to open a second front, and I'm not saying that, God forbid, guys with machine guns should run to Kyiv and start another Maidan and coup, by no means, but we have to clearly understand the fact that our main enemy in Ukraine now is corruption, because, first of all, it is corruption that brings Russia, because it turns out that in Transcarpathia some equipment is sold to Russia through other countries. How? Are you people out of your minds? Jackets were sewn with the inscription "Russia" - this is in Zakarpattia.
- Also, in a previous interview, you said that while we are there, while we are fighting, you steal. Would you repeat this phrase now?
- I wouldn't repeat that phrase now, because I saw the volume. I knew that people were stealing, but I didn't think it was on such a large scale. I knew there was corruption, but I didn't think it was the main problem. I still thought that our main problem at that time was the war with Russia. No, it turns out it is not. And this corruption is killing no less people than Russian weapons because if we take 10 dead soldiers, we can safely divide them into 2 - 5 died from Russian bullets, and 5 died from Russian bullets because we have corruption here, that's how I think now. Every day I think about where I can be useful, what I can do to start punishing. Because I understand that I am no longer fit for that war, yes, but here I am fit, completely.
- And if not you, who should fight corruption?
- There are bodies that receive money for this - the State Bureau of Investigation (SBI), NABU, the police.
- What's wrong, what's broken, why have 10 months passed and we're talking about corruption again but in a bigger way?
- Well, look - the president does not draw conclusions. When the whole country tells the president to fire Yermak, fire Tatarov - they are obviously corrupt officials - there is no need to prove anything, you can see it in their eyes. The president does not draw conclusions, the president does nothing to "clear out" his environment.
- Why do you think that is?
- It's just swearing that comes to mind, honestly.
- Go.
- Oh, come on, shish, I told you that this interview would be swear-free, I don't want to swear. Because br#kebacks, because someone has a hand deep up their ass, it seems to me that the president, as of today, has put on a huge crown and doesn't give a shit about what's going on in Ukraine, about corruption, because he's thinking about how to get into geopolitical control. In terms of... Can you imagine a guy from Kryvyi Rih who gets a standing ovation from the Congress or the UN Assembly, and it seems to me that he is thinking somewhere else and doesn't give a shit, but Yermak is in charge here. Our little Ukraine, you run it, I'll be thinking about how I can go there, stay on this Olympus, and Yermak is in charge here, and that's it.
- It is very interesting to hear your comments now. I can't forbid you to speak...
- No one can forbid me to do so because, first of all, I am not constrained.
- There are just such sensitive topics that I can't not talk about them and forbid you to say it. And then people will write different things in the comments.
- Let 'em, I will read the comments with pleasure, I like to read the comments under my interviews, and I will read the comments under this interview with pleasure. It hurts me, really, because I have so many friends dying. The lives of my friends directly depend on corruption - and if I can't fundraise for 10 drones to protect the guys directly, then I can at least do something here to reduce corruption, to make them feel safer, because it kills them, our corruption kills them on a par with Russian bullets, that's the conclusion.
- I wonder how to talk about corruption without stirring the pot because I'm sure there will be comments that you are stirring the pot. So what is it then, to be silent? And where does it mean to keep the balance?
- When I wrote this on Facebook, people asked me what to do. As of now, I don't have a clear answer, because I understand that any large-scale actions will really stir the pot, and I don't want this coup, this Maidan. If we take the president as a whole, it seems like the guy didn't run away, he stayed in Kyiv.
- Fact.
- He stayed in Kyiv, the international community respects him, and we, Ukraine, are being helped, basically because of him, because one of the main tasks of the president is international relations, representing Ukraine in the international arena. They still talk about us there and, thank God, it's not the worst, but damn it, you're the president and you have a mono-majority in parliament, your people are in key positions in the state, don't think about the world, think about Ukraine because after a while you won't have anyone to represent on this world stage, because everyone here will die out or leave. But for some reason, he holds on to Yermak and Tatarov. Thank God, even though Smirnov received a notice of suspicion, it is good news.
- Did you pay attention to Mariana Bezuhla's post?
- I don't have the nerve to read it.
- Okay, maybe you read the reposts. First, there was an attack on Zaluzhnyi, and now I see that this attack is already going on against Syrskyi, not only against Syrskyi but also against others. What do you think this attack means, where does it come from and how can it end?
- Look, I think Mariana is crazy and it is coming from nowhere, all the cockroaches live in her head, she ranted and raved on Zaluzhnyi, she's come up with something, and now she's coming up with something and is already ranting and raving on Syrskyi. There's a reason for that. You can have a go at anyone, it's just Mariana. The only adequate thing is that she rummages Syrskyi for the appointment of Sodol, and it`s for a reason, but I don't think there's anyone behind Mariana, she's honestly just a crazy woman who says what she wants, so I don't think we should focus on her at all.
- There are a lot of "dances" around the negotiation process now. To be honest, I've even heard dates when it might happen, how it will all happen.
- With Russia?
- With Russia, yes. How do you see this story? Do you see any preconditions for negotiations now and what should they be like?
- We know that any negotiations with Russia are worthless - this has already been proven by a bunch of different agreements. In any case, all wars end in negotiations, but when you negotiate that yields nothing, there is zero sense in those negotiations. That is why I am against negotiations because I know that they will not lead to anything, at least not now. As of today, there is nothing to indicate that any negotiations will lead to peace. Any negotiations will mean that they want to get one over on us: take away the Zaporizhzhia region, and Kherson region, then attack Odesa, they will not leave Odesa, no negotiations will stop them from сapturing Odesa, Mykolaiv region, Kharkiv region in the future - only a fool does not understand this, so no negotiations. Of course, I'm all for negotiations, but if they were effective, like, okay, you set a condition - Russian as a second state language, but you liberate the territory of Ukraine, including Crimea, but this will not happen? It will not happen. Then what should we negotiate about? That they stay where they are today and we stay where we are today? And what were we fighting for?
- And if there is a freeze in the conflict, what is the danger of that? So everyone has stopped on certain positions.
- Any freezing of the conflict is just a preparation for future steps, to strengthen, to gain strength, to sharpen teeth, and that's all. That's what any freezing of the conflict means. If we freeze the conflict, so what? We have a lot of people waiting to be released - in Melitopol, in Berdiansk, everywhere. Because I liberated Kherson and I saw it, I saw people crying, throwing themselves at our feet and thanking us for liberating them, and there are still a lot of people like that. We will simply betray them if we freeze the conflict. We have to cling, fight, climb, beg the world to help us.
- How long can this last? We don't have an infinite resource either.
- Human, you mean?
- Yes.
- This is probably the most difficult question because I understand perfectly well that the continuation of the war means delivering more messages about the dead to the families, I understand and am aware of this, and freezing the conflict will do nothing because Russia will still advance. We cannot attack them now either. The only thing we can do now is to stop them from advancing further, not to negotiate and to do everything in the international arena to pull the plug on Russia completely because we see the sanctions, they work, but they are not enough, they have learned to circumvent them. The world must unite, otherwise we will not win. I've said it before, I've said it from the very beginning - we cannot win this war with resources, because Russia is at least a nuclear power, and when they see that the noose around his throat is being squeezed, they will just ### at us with a nuclear weapon, so we can and must deter Russia, and those who have rose-coloured glasses now must do everything to convince the world that Russia must be destroyed. That's it. Russia is a dangerous country in its current state.
- That's for sure. I thank you for the conversation, for coming, for finding the time and opportunity, and for speaking frankly about all the topics, as always. I'm looking forward to hearing comments from our viewers, and I'm curious to see what they will talk about more - corruption, or the freezing of the conflict, or negotiations.
Anna Miroshnychenko, "Who is with Miroshnychenko?"
