Volodymyr Fokin, Commander of 1st Assault Battalion of 3rd SAB of AFU: State should have thought about what to do with war veterans two years ago
How long does it take to train an assaultman? Are men getting on in years needed in the army? Why does the war not end and who benefits from it? Volodymyr Fokin, the Commander of the 1st Assault Battalion of the 3rd SAB of the AFU, told Anna Miroshnychenko about these and other issues. In the program "Who is with Miroshnychenko?" he shared his thoughts on the Azov phenomenon and what Ukraine can learn from Russia.
- My call sign is Foka, Volodymyr Fokin, Сommander of the 1st Assault Battalion, 3rd Separate Assault Brigade, a Kyiv resident. Since 2015, I participated in the ATO. From 2015 to the end of 2017, I resigned from the National Guard of Ukraine, and on 24 February 2022, I rejoined the ranks, continued to serve our country. We are currently in the Kharkiv direction, near the village of Borova, so we won't go into details. We are currently holding the line and conducting assault operations.
- Is there a threat to the Kharkiv region now? Other regions, including the Pokrovsk direction and Kursk region, are more popular, and this is understandable. What about the Kharkiv region?
- Well, the enemy actually has enough reserves, resources, ammunition and weapons to be able to put pressure on several directions. Of course, the situation in Pokrovsk and Pokrovsk-Myrnohrad is the most intense, given how quickly we surrendered Novohrodivka and how quickly the Russians reached Selydove. However, there is a threat in the Kharkiv region as well. Again, this is the village of Pishchany, north of the 3rd Assault Brigade's line, where the enemy has succeeded in seizing the village and continues to advance towards the Oskil River, the left bank. As we said earlier, the enemy still aims to capture Borova, reach the left bank of the Oskil River, move to the defense and release a large number of forces and means that are now needed to keep the line of defense. And eventually, the road to Kupiansk will open up another flank for them, and in general, again, these reserves can be used in other directions.
- Let's talk more about the situation in the country as a whole because we understand that the situation changes from time to time, and by the time we talk to you and assemble, everything may already be completely different.
-100 %.
- In one of your interviews, there was a headline, not even a headline, but on the cover it said "I owe my country", something like that. How do you explain the fact that you are at war now?
-It is my civic position, my own conscious choice that I joined the National Guard in 2015, in fact, in 2014, I was able to join the National Guard only in 2015. In fact, as I always say, I don't need to be taught to love my country, I love it so much, and I am proud to be a Ukrainian and to live in Ukraine. So it was my choice, I didn't need to be told that the state had to be defended, that there was an enemy there, and so on. This is my civic position.
- Is it possible to love the state and not fight for it?
-In fact, I think yes, but then you have to do a lot, a lot, if we are talking about the situation with the war, in the rear. It's not like I love Ukraine, drink coffee and wait for the military to put things in order.
- For example?
-For example, again, if you are not a member of the Kyiv City State Administration or the Verkhovna Rada, you can create public organizations, take public initiatives, and hold meetings without any questions. Some people say, "Nothing depends on me," but again, between 2017 and 2022, I also tried to be actively involved in public activities. We had our own public organization, the Union of ATO Veterans of Podil District, and we tried to defend the rights of veterans by all methods, strength and capabilities.
Unfortunately, the Ministry of Veterans was not very helpful in this, but, again, we united with other NGOs that had a common goal, common values, and looked in the same direction. We managed to "rouse to action" of the Kyiv City State Administration, as we used to say, to get something done for war veterans, although there were very few interested, active people. In other words, most people were amorphous, they just came: "Well, where is my land? Did you manage to wheedle for me my land out of? Did you get my apartment?" And they did nothing for this. We chose to be proactive, went to meetings at the Kyiv City State Administration, met with various committees and other NGOs, and had some success.
- This September, there was a reshuffle of personnel, and a new Minister of Veterans was appointed. You posted a story on your Instagram, and you were not very positive about the fact that such a department and such a ministry is headed by a person without military experience. And this is actually not the only opinion I hear, particularly from guys. And recently there was a poll, and 70% of Ukrainians say that they want the military to enter politics. But for some reason, the military does not enter. Either they are not allowed there or they do not want to?
-The military is not entering politics, because the military is currently at war. This is the first thing. Secondly, I can say for myself: when I decided to retire from the army in 2017, I did not see myself in politics or anywhere else. I see that the country does not want to win the ATO, does not want to return the land, it is completely satisfied with the state of affairs we had, and I came to liberate our land. That is, I came to the war to fight, to drive out the occupiers, back then they were separatists. And if I see that the country doesn't need it, why should I be the only one sitting in a trench, a person who has never considered himself a military man in his life and never will. So I decided to resign. I believe that the Ministry of Veterans should be headed by a war veteran. War veterans should be elected directly to the position of Minister, for example, of Veterans Affairs. Because the military know a lot about each other - who fought where, who served where and how, who has what kind of history of military service. And this will make it possible to avoid the artificial appointment of a person who will simply suit someone at the top. If that happens, it will be great. But it didn't work out that way. Again, apart from the head of this body, all management should be in the hands of war veterans. To be honest, we had, have and will have lawyers, businessmen, some politicians and journalists fighting at the front. In fact, they are the cream of nation, not only in the spiritual but also in the mental sense of the word. In other words, they are quite intelligent, quite clever, educated people. Why not? I mean, yes, I agree, and the Ministry of Veterans, as it is now, is just a soap bubble.
- The military, to me, is very much about justice. And I'm not sure that our politics is about justice. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that even if a military man enters politics, he may face this system. You're a man of war, you know what the army is, a global machine, and he can also give up the ship there, or not do what he planned?
- I think that most likely, it will not be the military who will give up the ship, who will get into politics, but the system will break the military. I remember the year 2015, the first time I came on vacation, that summer, I think, when the National Police was created? I was shocked when I walked around Kyiv at night with a backpack. First of all, there were so many police cars, they were all running, every other car stopped: "Good evening, is everything okay?" and I still have flashbacks from the past from the police, and they are all so polite, courteous and pleasant, "Maybe you need a ride? Can I help you with something?" I was very pleased. Looking ahead, when the guys were leaving and resigning from the ranks of the Azov regiment, some of them still got jobs in the National Police to support these changes, all of them resigned. So anyway, a year and a half later, the system that they were trying to destroy was created again, and it was created again, and the police had to repair their cars, refuel them, and so on at their own expense. That's it, the system got back on track and continued to destroy everyone who came across with different views.
- And what would you change in the system now, if you had the power, in our country? I mean the policy.
- I would not go into politics. I'm sorry, but I can't call it anything but prostitution in our country. And in fact, abroad as well, even in America, what goes on behind the scenes, who makes deals with whom. Could I consider myself a career military man? Perhaps. But there are a lot of conditions, and even if I were to become Commander-in-Chief, it would take a big team. Because in fact, you will have all the same generals and colonels sitting there, who will do everything well for you from here, and you alone, well, will not control it. You need a team that thinks the same way as you do, and moves in the same direction and helps each other.
- Do we often have the situation where generals receive undeserved awards, while guys who really have merit either have to fight for these awards or their commanders have to fight for these guys, ordinary infantrymen, and generals, military officials, just get it all without any problems, land plots, awards, and everything. Does this exist in the country now?
- Yes, of course, there is, how can it not be, if we have been living like this for 30 years, what should change in a year or two? Of course, nothing. Moreover, I am outraged when combat awards are given to some rear units that are not actually directly involved in combat operations. Yes, they can provide something, but in fact, the Military Police and other units based in Kyiv do not go anywhere, and if they do, it is at most Kramatorsk, some awards, even if not of a very high level, gold crosses, steel crosses, but these are combat awards. I mean, for some reason we still haven't made the distinction. In other words, a combat award for a notional infantryman, a squad leader, platoon, company, or combat command is also a separate level from some rear positions. I don't know why. Our guys are still waiting for their awards for Avdiivka. Many of them have not yet received awards for Andriivka, even though we have submitted them. So it would be nice to put things in order here as well.
- What is the reason for not receiving money for Avdiivka or Andrivka? Is there a queue?
- I don't know. The platoon commander, company commander, battalion commander write this request. This is how it works here: we gather, for example, the first assault company. It has completed a combat mission and performed well. And I realize that there are some award-winning fighters there. I turn to the company commander and say, "Give me the people you want to honor. He prepares a list. And then we talk to each of them individually. In other words, the soldier who is to be awarded or nominated for award, by his platoon leader and company commander. And we make a collective decision, and in the end, I visualize it there, give my approval or not, and then we actually come to the brigade. The brigade will come to the corps and so on endlessly. Then the Land Forces Command, the General Staff, maybe the president has to sign something. And I don't know where all the papers are lost, who pauses them. But there is such a problem. Again, whoever else would say, why don't you see yourself as a career military? I am a battalion commander, my salary is 32,500 hryvnias. I have hundreds of people, weapons and equipment under my command, and I won't say exactly how many - it's a state secret. Some people say you are fighting for money. I'm not fighting for money, and for the first three months we were dying, being wounded, we were not even registered. We didn't get paid, and no one cared. But we have families. Okay, the war ended with our victory, and you're still a military man, you have nothing? That's right - bonuses, you still have a basic pay, it's not quite basic, it's not like that, but in total you get 32,500. You are in charge of many, many hundreds of people, weapons, equipment, combat, other, logistics... Your work schedule is 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. There's no such thing as 9 to 6 in the evening, it doesn't work that way for battalion and company commanders, for sure. This is even if there is no war. We have a 1-0 wage scale, although in the Air Assault Forces it is 1.3 as far as I know. I, as a battalion commander, get 32,500, but a simple SOF soldier, who is being mobilized in the same way as our guys, just a soldier, gets 32 thousand. A soldier. For me personally, I don't see any prospects of serving and giving my all for the rest of my life for 32,500 hryvnias a month. With such responsibility. Is this a problem? Yes, it is a problem. Did they promise to solve it a year ago? They did. Because we are an assault brigade, and this is something new in our country, and we are not TDFs (Territorial Defense Forces), but not AFs (Airborne Forces), but not SOFs either. Well, who are we? You are an assault brigade. And what is your salary? Well, we get the smallest salary, that's all. That's all, we live like that. Does it satisfy me? Yes, it's fine.
- What do you spend your 32 thousand hryvnias on?
- 32 thousand. In fact, I already have everything. Everything I could only dream of in terms of equipment, I have already bought or was given to me for my birthday by my friends, comrades-in-arms or family. That's why I actually have 32 thousand for rent, because we rent housing, most often, utilities, food, drink, gas, car repairs, maintenance. In principle, my salary is actually enough. I try to save all the bonus I get, because I understand that when there is either a freeze on the conflict, some kind of agreement, a victory, an end to the war, whatever, everything. The military, as I experienced in 2017, is not needed by anyone. Moreover, you'll try to get a job afterwards, because you're some kind of PTSD person, some other kind of nervous, unstable person.
- They also say he was shell-shocked.
- A shell-shocked soldier. I don't know a soldier who is not contused, who came from the infantry from a normal unit. All of them are shell-shocked, including me, and more than once.
- It's just that our society has such a negative connotation. You know, like a shell-shocked person, that's all.
- People don't even know what an acubarotrauma is, what a contusion is, how it affects them. In fact, it's not the contusion that has a bigger impact, but the post-traumatic syndrome. It is, as you said, a stronger sense of justice and everything else. The state had to think for two years about what to do with us. Like in Israel, when you go to combat, fulfill your combat mission, leave the combat zone, the first thing you do is have a medical examination. If you actually took part in combat operations, if you have any doubts about what exploded or did not explode, you go straight to the hospital. And you are not sick, you are not mentally ill, you are fine, you just go to the hospital for rehabilitation for a certain period of time. The doctors work with you, they have a very good attitude, everything works great, they watch everything, you are ready to go out into society, everything is fine with you. So, my friend, go home, no questions asked. And what about us? A person is needed in our country as long as he is at war. If a leg is torn off, an arm is torn off, or you lose your health, at best you can only pay tribute, gratitude, and a deepest gratitude to the volunteers, but the volunteers can still help through their channels, through their friends. For the most part, the state doesn't really need you anymore. Because you are no longer useful.
- Are you angry with the state now?
- Not the state. Look, you probably can't say this, and many people won't understand me, but even the guys in the unit 99% agree, they share the same opinion. You look at me, for example, at you, at someone else, and you think, oh, okay, an adequate person, everything is fine, motivated, kind. But how we get together as a people, I don't know. Or maybe we're just used to being very patient and avoiding responsibility for our actions and inactions. I don't know what this has to do with. But it hurts. And the government? We actually choose it ourselves. If we don't choose it, then we have to do something to make it better. If we can't make the government we have better, then let's change something, but start with ourselves, because for some reason we often forget to demand something from ourselves, some level of knowledge, skills, or whatever, and immediately try to expect something from someone else. The only thing I've been thinking about for a long time, what I would really like to do in politics, is the Ministry of Youth and Sports. Maybe you could be involved in all the clubs, all the swimming pools, all the stadiums, and you could really influence their development, the development of the coaching staff, the professionalism of the approach to raising children, and children are our future. And you would be directly involved in the education of children as our future, the future of our country. It's really interesting.
- And how is the current education of young people going? What is wrong and what is right?
- In my opinion, it doesn't work the same way it did when I was a kid, a teenager, when I was playing sports. In fact, nowadays you have to look very, very, very, very hard to find a free, high-quality club. That's the first thing. Secondly, it is possible to improve the quality of teaching certain disciplines directly in the clubs, to create better conditions. And what is the most important thing? To convey, motivate and promote the fact that it is important, that parents, take your children, bring them, even if you know someone there, some mom, oh, I'd rather lie on the couch than take my child somewhere, because it's work again, you know? It takes a lot of time and effort, and you have to prepare the parents that it's necessary, and the child will grow and develop much differently. Of course, physical education is better for children than sports, if we are talking about physical and mental health. Well, sports involve athletes, and you understand what risks a child can take, their health and so on. This is a different story altogether, professional sports are a little different. So it would be interesting to me.
- What level of patriotic education do we have now? Do you think that all young people are sufficiently aware of the war and what is happening? Do you remember all those polls that ask you to name the Heroes of Ukraine? People don't know, name what's happening in a certain place, they don't know either.
- Here I could make a big betrayal, but let's not make a betrayal. I watched the videos you are talking about. Then let's talk about Azov, let's just draw a parallel. Everyone is like, "Oh, Azov, they are such patriots, nationalists, they love Ukraine so much." But wait, wait, wait, look deeper. There is a man, in this case, Andrii Yevhenovych Biletskyi, alongside whom there were comrades-in-arms who, long before Azov, formed various nationalist movements. They took on certain responsibilities, certain work of the state. In other words, this is patriotic education. There were many different organizations, large and small: "Patriots of Ukraine, White Hammer. But when the state was siphoning off the conditional factories left over from the Soviet Union and no one thought about patriotic education, pre-conscription training for young men, and other disciplines, that's where healthy Ukrainian nationalism was born, where love for our country, our culture, and our history was taught. Later, the Azov unit organized the Horunzha service. How many years were invested in these young people, and they became more conscious later, and have already gathered, in this case, we are talking about Azov. So now the question to the state is: "Where are your patriotic education programs?"
- Do they exist now? We are in the third year of the great war, do we have these programmes now?
- It is difficult for me to answer this question now, because I am at war, and I have little interest in what is happening in the rear. In terms of education, yes, I'm talking about different educational programs, how the reforms are going. But I remember 2021, 2020, when we went to schools on our own, it was actually all at our expense, on our initiative, our time, our strength, sometimes we were thanked, sometimes not. We took our tools, different models, everything we had with us and went to schools. But then again, someone gets paid for this, someone works somewhere and gets paid. We have our own jobs, we have our own families, we have our own area of responsibility, but we just went to schools at the call of our hearts. Now this should be done professionally, at the state level, and, as you said, a real story, real love, that's what children can be proud of in their country, what outstanding people, what various achievements, it's a kindergarten, school, institutes, universities, colleges. I am sure that this is the beginning because we are adults, it is still ingrained Soviet mentality, and it will be very difficult for us to set the right pace for young people, because "we are brothers," well, this is still there. And this will not be stamped out in a few decades. We need several generations to change.
- It's just that in this context, we laugh so much at the Russian Federation when we see their videos where they teach children something, they have patriotic education. Well, let's put aside how they do it, what they put in their heads.
- It's super cool! It's super cool!
- They have different narratives, but the model itself...
- The model is super cool, everything is super cool. If you don't know what to do with young people, look at Russia. Really. Although it's been my sworn enemy since 2014, although before 2014 I was like, "We're brothers," and my last name is Fokin, and half of my relatives are from Donetsk, and my roots are from Russia. But... You can point your fingers and twist your temple for a long time, "but look what they're doing." And the result? The main result is that children are taught tactical medicine at school and in higher education institutions. Is it bad? No, it is not. Any car accident, any earthquake, anything: the child is at least medically savvy. You have a neighbor who comes to you on the 24th with tanks, and you know medicine, you know topography, you know how to use weapons. Why not? They have a patriotic upbringing, they all run around with Russian flags and St. George ribbons, although this is completely different. They are proud of their country, so they have it knocked into their heads that they should be proud, this is what they should be proud of, this is what history is like, even if it has been rewritten. It's bad for us, it's bad for Germany and Poland, which are conventional. And why is it bad for the population of Russia? Is love for the Motherland bad? No. The fact that they are proud to say "I am Russian," right? It's cool, and it works. Guys, if you can't offer something better, take at least this model and at least the same thing, just repeat it so that there would be at least some result. And we have been in a full-scale war for three years: when the war is over, then we will live... when the war is over, then there will be reforms... when the war is over, then there will be education... That's all, when the war is over. If it does not end in ten years, what then? We need to solve problems now. Right now. And not to put them off for later.
- I'll come back to the topic of the Russian Federation because I really don't want to comment on the fact that the Ukrainian military praises Russia. But despite their patriotic upbringing, what they put into the heads of these children, they don't get motivated, do they? For "love of the motherland"?
- How does motivation come about? Good. Let's draw two parallels again. We have just physically run out of people who voluntarily joined the army. They ran out for several reasons, one of which is when they see unfair treatment, when promises are not kept, and you go to war for life. What if the war lasts 100 years? According to the law, I have to serve for 100 years. How do I get out? There is no mechanism. This is what they call busification. In the RF, what? It's cool in the FR. In Samara, God knows where, where the average salary is 15-20 thousand rubles, they sign a contract right away, and the allowance on appointment is a million. Do you understand what a 15-20 thousand ruble salary is, and allowance on appointment a million? Motivation, motivation. You have a allowance on appointment from your city, from your district, from the country, from the president, from someone else. The fact that they agree to this, that they go with weapons in their hands to kill us on the territory of our state, go to rape and rob us, is terrible. No question about it. But it works for them. They're coming, after all. How many of them died? Officially, 600 thousand died there. But a good million died there, plus they were seriously injured. So what? Are they going on? They are going on. Does the Russian Federation have any problems with personnel? No. Well, they don't have any problems. For almost two months they have been able to receive 350-400-500 people every month. These are just basically stormtroopers. So they have problems with personnel, with motivation?
- Were they trained soldiers?
- About 70 to 30. 70% are untrained military. In fact, you can't call them cannon fodder either, they understand what to do. Although some of them, again, from the moment of mobilization on the territory of the Russian Federation to the moment of capture or death are already in our trench, conditionally 10-12 days. And when we take prisoners, especially recently, I ask them: how have you been trained? 6 days of training in Russia and another 4 days in Ukraine. That is actually 10 days. And they are already fighting, they are already assaulting. Watch our narratives. A month of preparation. Not enough. I remember these tearful records of the TDFs. "We were thrown with assault rifles onto tanks." What about you? So we are thrown with assault rifles onto tanks. There are anti-tankers, there are tankers, there are aviation, there are FPV units. And what does everyone have to have a Javelin? Well, an FPV drone will hit, and everyone will talk about it: "We all have no electronic warfare. That's all of us". Yes, but does everyone need an anti-drone gun? No. Well, it also has a fire system and electronic warfare, among other things. Then two months passed. Now we have two months in Ukraine, two months in Britain. You come back, it's been four months, another month of training to become a grenade launcher or machine gunner. Before that, it was a month, they knew nothing and could not do anything. Now it's been five months, and they still know nothing and can't do anything. What has changed? Nothing has changed. This is actually about the problem of training newly mobilized personnel. And those people who want to learn something, they are mastering the art of war on their own, even without instructors, even without practice, even without the skills of handling weapons, when they have the muscle memory of how to operate everything correctly. But they have an understanding because they are just interested. They take it, they read it, there is YouTube, millions of videos, how to shoot a Javelin, you can learn from a Stinger, whatever you want.
- There are not the vast majority of them, are there?
- Excuse me, whose problem is it? Let's get to the root of the matter: if you don't know how to apply a tourniquet, is it the president's problem or yours? And on the battlefield, you got a shrapnel wound.
- Well, yes, it is mine.
- And that's it. In fact, when I see all the fighters who come to us, when they don't do their best during training, I take them and tell them: "Guys, you don't understand, if you take it roughly, in a Soviet way, you know, I'm a commander, I don't give a damn about you. This is your problem. You don't get Ds or A's here. The price is your life. You will either apply the tourniquet or you will not. And the worst thing is if you are, I'm sorry, not a very smart person, and some cool fighter gets wounded, who will be to your right or left, and you will not be able to provide him with effective pre-medical assistance or first aid and he will die." And that's when they tune in, when they realize that the price of a mistake or neglect of some skills is a life. And it works. And even if someone tells me that we didn't have a medical instructor. Few people know, but in Azov, since the beginning of 2015, there have been no instructors for anything at all. There was simply nothing. We studied the old-fashioned way, and there was no YouTube then, a million videos of everything else, we actually studied ourselves from some textbooks, some websites. Someone who had already served could at least explain what a machine gun was. And so we got together. And so we taught each other. Then new guys came, and the old ones taught the new ones, and so the experience was passed on. We were shooting with RPGs, and there were flames behind each other, and no one knew or told us what to do. Well, it was no big deal, someone got burned.
- And when they catch a young man in the river and send him somewhere, do you think he has a huge motivation to watch YouTube videos on how to apply a tourniquet? This is a man who wanted to escape and, thank God, didn't die? How do you teach these people? How can they be motivated?
- Again, this is the work of NCOs, a little bit of officers. It's just like after the Third Assault Brigade was formed, when we were still the Azov Kyiv Special Operations Forces, we actually had a small backbone, a very small one. New guys came, we just assimilated them and that was it. And they became the same as we used to be called "AZOV", because people still cannot separate AZOV from the Third Assault Brigade, and then that's it, and they became fighters of the Third Assault Brigade. We actually had mobilized "ninety-day wonders" who had passed the military department. When we were forming a brigade, how did it work? The General Staff would find out that a brigade had been formed, with 3,000 soldiers, 20 officers, and they needed 500 officers. That's it, just like that, the "ninety-day wonders" were taken to the brigade. What they know, what they don't know, it doesn't matter. An officer, a platoon commander, a captain, even though he hadn't served a day, doesn't know how to disassemble a machine gun, just went to a training camp - the company commander was there. And that's how they were arranged. And we had some very cool guys. One of them, unfortunately, was killed in the Bakhmut direction, friend March. He was a great guy, although he was an officer, and the other one, my friend Beaver. He is still in our ranks. Unfortunately, he also lost his leg in Andriivka, stepping on a PFM, now he has a prosthesis, but is still in service.
- He's back.
- Yes, he is. A very cool guy, an uncle, 52 years old, doing exercises on the horizontal bar, excuse me, walking like the rest of us, assimilated. And that's it, and there are no questions, that is, a person either wants to or not. We are told that for some reason everyone needs some kind of motivation. You either want to or you don't. If you don't want to fight there and run away across the river, and you are caught, then run away again. And if you've already come to the military enlistment office, gone through three training sessions for six months and joined the army, then, my friend, you have to do something. Of course, it's different in different units, but we have no problems. If a person comes and says: "I want to learn" or ‘Tell me or show me,’ especially since we formed this unit from scratch and created it on our own. FPV drones, crews, UAVs, it's not like the country taught us everything, we organized it ourselves. And we trained people to use all available means on our own. No questions asked, we will teach, what's the problem?
- How long does it take to train an assaultmen?
- Look, if there are normal conditions, as we had in the Bakhmut direction, after a person came from the training center, we tried to keep him for at least a month: he is already in the unit, but he does not storm. He lives with the guys, with the girls, communicates, trains with them. They just go to the positions, to a defensive battle, for example, or to an assault, he has not yet gone. He goes and trains only at the training ground. A month for a positional war, I can honestly tell you, is more than enough. And this is despite the fact that in a month he will be able to use night vision devices, thermal imaging devices, communications equipment, including various models of radio stations. Well, everything you want. He will know how to shoot an assault rifle, an under-barrel grenade launcher, throw grenades, work with an RPG-7, and a PK machine gun, so he is ready-ready. It takes two months for him to be able to storm, to storm really well. Two months is a normal approach, a normal training program. Two months is a ready-ready-ready fighter. That's it. Then how long can he study? People learn all their lives. And I'm actually still learning, and when I come to the training ground to see the guys, and after each battle we try to draw conclusions, each at his own level. If it's the commanders, then it's always a level lower than what happened there. If I'm talking about myself as a battalion commander, I always take two levels down, i.e. company, platoon, what happened there. And one level higher. I am very pleased to come to analyze, when the unit commanders are talking, platoon sergeants, directly about how the guys moved on the battlefield, who made decisions, for example, with their fire team, a buddy team, for example. And they show it. Both what is useful, what we can use during future combat missions, and what we are practicing on a regular basis. I am interested in this. Again, no one knows what will happen in 20 years. But it is possible to teach. That's why two months with a good training program makes a good infantryman.
- Do you, I am not a military man, go on assaults?
- No.
- Are you in charge?
- We have a problem with the chain of command in general. We often have high-ranking officials come and tell us that the squad needs to go somewhere, and the platoon needs to go here. So the brigade commander does not have to think about where the platoon should go, it is not his issue, 100%. The battalion commander can advise the company commander there, or maybe you will send a platoon to reinforce it? This is generally still at the planning stage, it is more of a recommendation. That's all. And we are now trying to come to the conclusion that everyone should fulfill their duties. The commander of the unit, the commander of the battalion. Because, in fact, if everyone there is like, "Oh, they're storming the battalion, then yes, two medics, most likely a battalion commander, a chief of staff, some company commanders and all the stormtroopers." We have one mortar battery, another mortar battery, one reconnaissance UAV platoon, one strike UAV platoon, armored vehicles, tanks that are constantly assigned, an EW platoon, an EI platoon, and reconnaissance. And all this information must be monitored, processed and timely decisions made both during battle planning and preparation, when we practice maneuvers on the ground, and directly during the battle. That's it. So even when I was a company commander, we were already trying to do this. How does it work? On the battlefield, if we are engaged in assault operations, firstly, different numbers of personnel can be involved. If we have to capture a dugout, it can be two or four soldiers, eight or a platoon. Well, it actually depends on the task and the conditions for accomplishing the combat mission. How is it with us? Sergeants work on the battlefield, platoons are controlled by radio stations, and platoon commanders control the radio air. Each platoon commander, for example, has a UAV crew that works exclusively in his interests. The company commander simply has to monitor what each platoon leader is doing. For example, if we hold the platoons at once, we work. How the armored group is working, whether it is satisfied with the work or not, although it is the squad leader, the platoon leader at most. He knows how the company UAV works and how the company fire support platoon works, i.e. how the firepower works. And if he sees that something is missing, or an automatic grenade launcher is not working properly, he keeps in touch with the battalion commander, for example, with me, and says: yes, I need one 120 mortar, the number of rounds to be fired is so high, can you help? Sure, I'll help. Or I tell him, for example, that there is a problem with 120 mortars, but I know that I can establish communication with the neighboring battalion, or with the battalion that is already supporting us, and ask them to practice, or to engage some similar firepower, or to ask the brigade to practice with the means of the senior commander. In other words, if a company commander starts managing infantry commanders, he will do nothing else. He will not collect any information, and he will not draw any conclusions. And he simply will not be able to react quickly to changes in the situation, which is constantly changing in a combat situation. Because he will think - one company commander - about all the infantrymen together. The same goes for the battalion commander. Am I going to the reconnoiter? Yes, I do. I mean, the terrain is important. Do you check the positions? Yes, I do, either I do it, or the battalion's chief sergeant, or we do it together, or the deputy commander for combat training. Basically, everyone. If we take, for example, the Kherson liberation operation, of course, the battalion commander goes with everyone. There are no questions here, he does not sit around in the middle of nowhere, because it was a search and raid operation. We cannot know how deep it will be, where we will meet resistance or not, where we will stay, what tasks we will receive, new ones. It's not clear, the battalion commander usually follows the personnel.
- You are 32 years old, are you considered a young commander now?
- I think it's middle-aged.
- For this war?
- For this war, I think it is also average. If we take into account that I have been a soldier since the beginning of the full-scale invasion and now I am a battalion commander, it is really fast. If you just take my rank, position, age, it's unusual because I became a battalion commander as a lieutenant. In general, this is unrealistic in the army. In fact, you have to be at least a major. Once upon a time, maybe a captain held such a position somewhere. That is, a major is a bit like a battalion commander. It was like that in the Armed Forces. When a lieutenant becomes a battalion commander, it's really cool. But again, as you say, a commander and a lieutenant, you graduate from a military school, and you come out as a lieutenant, and you become a platoon commander, and you're there, give or take, how old, well, let's say 21-22 years old, something like that.
- You said that you have a man who is 52 years old. I wanted to talk about age. Isn't modern warfare a matter for the young? Your favorite word, I know, is "quarter-decking", your comrades in arms must have it, that's all, adventurism, adrenaline. Or, nevertheless, older people, those who already have some experience... Who should fight? Is it a war of the young? The elderly or the middle-aged?
- If we want to win this war, it is a war of the whole country. The whole country has to fight in one way or another, be involved in the fighting in this war.
- This is impossible, do you understand that?
-Perhaps I will prove that it is possible. Look. First, we take age, for example. We actually have a big problem, we don't know how to manage our personnel properly. I mean, you're right, for example, a old man comes in. Old man Beaver, 52 years old, but he led a healthy lifestyle, he did physical education, and at 52 he will give a take the upper hand to the young. Do you want to be a stormtrooper? He said: "I'll be an assault pilot". Welcome, my friend, no questions asked. What's the problem? Another old man comes in, who is 55, but who is all, well, dead in the water in his health.
- And they send him to storm the place, does that happen? And he says: I can't. And then he had a stroke, a heart attack, everything. They took him in a bus and drove him away.
-Well, if we listened to everyone who said, "I can't," you and Maria would probably be the ones fighting. Maybe. If everyone listened to everyone. But in fact, we have recently had some 55-year-olds come in. I look at him and realize that he is not a stormtrooper. But he says: I'm a great mechanic, I know how to repair cars, no questions asked. 'Hey, buddy, you are welcome, here's the service station, our battalions, go and wrench. The best mechanics-drivers are not 100%, because there are also young, very cool guys who are the best mechanics-drivers, and they are just like these men-men. He's driven some trucks, he drove an infantry fighting vehicle in the ATO, he already has experience, he's not in a hurry. Plus, it's still a vehicle, an APC, and you have to take care of it, you know? This is more typical of men over 40, that's all. You gave him an APC, trained him, gave him courses, explained everything. And now he goes around licking it, wiping it down, everything. And he copes with his duties perfectly. The same goes for signalmen, EW, EI fighters. A person comes in and says: I have knee problems, I'm not going to storm the base. But I'm so motivated, I'll learn everything you tell me. And he won't have to learn on his own, we will teach him. I just realized that the man wants to serve and do good. I will put him in the EI. I will send him to courses for two or three weeks, a month. Then, with our own courses, as they say, we will finish his knowledge and skills. We will conduct practical classes and he will sit at the electronic intelligence center and listen to intercepts. What's the problem? There is no problem.
- Do you think the countries of the world are still afraid of Putin, afraid of escalation? That's why we won't get the long-awaited permits. And the president goes to Ramstein, but still there are no results from there. Not the results we would like.
-Let's first look at the IAEA, the result of its work. Then we will look at the UN, the result of the work.
- The Red Cross?
-The Red Cross and NATO. That's it. Our guys have been trained in many European countries. And they come back with horror. They say there is no army there. Do they have the technology? We have the technology, no question. Do they have weapons? Weapons are available. Again, the number of weapons that are actually ready to perform combat missions, which are in the firing readiness, is also a question. About the aid, as we used to PR it, the lend-lease. No, let's be honest, the lend-lease was in 1943-1944, when tens of thousands of vehicles, armored vehicles, shells, airplanes, everything was just coming. Our partners were working for victory then. Now, as a military man, I have the impression that this is help, you know, so that we don't die. To hold on, to hold on to something, I read somewhere recently, yesterday or today, that someone there will give us 77 Leopards. What 77 Leopards? Well, 7700 Leopards is good. 770 Leopards is not bad. What about 20 Bradleys? What about even 50 Bradleys? But 5000 Bradleys - that would count. 500 Bradleys would be enough to equip at least a few brigades in a proper, efficient, high-quality manner. No question about it. Next. Unification. There is no unification of equipment, ammunition and weapons. We have all the cars in the world, but we don't know how to fix them, and we don't know how to set up logistics for spare parts or for damaged vehicles that need to be repaired. How to deploy effective maintenance and repair teams so that they are so unified, no one else in the world has this. So again, is this a problem? 100% problem. The problem is the chambering. We have everything from 60 mortars, 81, 72, 120, 120 something, rifled with rocket mines. It's just a mess. 122, 152, 155, 105... it's just a lot. How to provide all this? How do you transport it all? How do you repair it all? And again, it's good that Ukrainians are just very inventive, very powerful, that they learn like this, on anything, in just 5 minutes, they create firing tables for their different types of ammunition.
-But we have no choice.
- No choice... You just want to live, but there is no choice. The guys are in the trenches, and you are behind with a mortar, so there is no choice. And Russia. They need a couple of calibers, a couple of tanks, a couple of IFVs, a couple of APCs. They need three spare parts for all APCs, all of them, and that's it. That's unification for you. The speed of repair, the speed of recovery, again. And the speed, if we say over there, they are still building something at their factories. That's why, you know, we would like to see not just a little bit more, but much more from our Western partners.
- Do they not want us to win?
- Again, this is a betrayal and my personal opinion, what is more profitable? Russia is a serious player in the international arena. Who realizes this? Does the EU realize this? 100% understands. Does China understand? Yes, it does. Does the United States understand? Yes, they do. So, who will benefit from Russia's war with Ukraine? In fact. Will the EU benefit? Well, not really, because they are already without gas, and soon they will be buying firewood from us. Will China benefit? Yes, it will. And the United States? Yes. If someone or Russia defeats Ukraine very quickly or vice versa, will this weaken Russia? Economically? Absolutely not. Will it drive out a large number of people, as they shout there, "I am Russian, Slavic"? No. Will it destroy a large amount of ammunition, weapons, equipment, aviation of the Russians, for example? No. That is, they need a distance, in fact, a distance where tanks, airplanes, armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles, weapons, people, a large number of sanctions, a large amount of money, gold and currency reserves, and so on will be lost every day for a long period of time. And this is beneficial. And this is beneficial. And for whom? For China, because it will be possible to buy the same Russians into slavery for ammunition, in fact. With all the territories, minerals, and so on. And it is also beneficial for the United States of America. Why not?
- What to do in this situation? Because in fact, you are saying very scary things now. Objectively.
- This is my opinion.
- And you have the right to voice it both on the air and in principle. And what we hear now is scary. Maybe someone is just afraid to say it. You know, there's another category of people who are afraid to say it out loud, but you are. Then the question is: what do we do with this? How do we keep going? And what could be the ending?
- You know, I'll just give you an example. When you are offered to build a plant for the production of Bayraktars on the territory of your country, you do not need to ask millions for connecting electricity to the production facilities. And everything will be fine in your country. No, you don't. You can still eat, but it's just a little less easy. And to actually prioritize. We need "business people", you know, "business managers" who will look at the future. In other words, we have been building a plant for two years. For three years, we launch it and set up production, for two years we sell something, and for the third year, we pay it off. But you have to look to the future. And unfortunately, for some reason, all layers of the population are used to the idea that if I steal 50 hryvnias or 5 billion dollars today, it will be enough for the rest of my life. Well, maybe it will be enough. What will your children do tomorrow? What will your descendants do? What kind of state will you leave to your descendants? You have to think like that.
- What about the claims that we have a ballistic missile? A drone, a missile, a "Palyanytsia"?
- There are no questions. And even regarding the production of FPV drones and other weapons. We are moving forward, no questions asked. But again, if this was our maximum, you know, we produce one "Palyanytsia" per week and we realize that we physically cannot do it anymore. There is no question about it. I know for sure that our country, our military-industrial complex, our government, all of us, can do more. Much more. And much better. And we have everything for this. We've launched rockets into space, invented helicopters, and assembled airplanes, so why can't we assemble a ballistic missile? Come on, don't be ridiculous. We just need to get these 80-year-olds out of their garages somewhere, where they are now driving their Moskvich-Zhiguli, and they will assemble everything, they remember how to do it. And then we must not forget how we once surrendered our nuclear potential with our strategic bombers. And not to repeat such mistakes. And everything will be fine.
- What else is positive about the final?
- A lot of positive things. Well, really, a lot of positive things.
- I hate to end this interview with such pessimism.
- We will live and the victory will be ours. But we will also need a little bit of cunning. We have to be smart and ready for tricks. And yet, we have to play the long game. And this applies not only to the war, but also to preparing for future actions that will still be expected. The question is who will be better prepared. Russia will strike a third time at Ukraine. Either we will be ready for it, or we will be the first to strike this third blow and return our territories.
Anna Miroshnychenko, "Who is with Miroshnychenko?"
