"Russian forces are using new dangerous mines," – Serhii Reva, State Emergency Service’s Mine Action Department
How are the Russians trying to improve the Shaheds they use to strike Ukraine every night? What should a person do if a missile hits a multi-story building while they are inside their apartment? What types of drones assist deminers in neutralizing mines? And is it possible to train artificial intelligence to detect mines?
Serhii Reva, Director of the Mine Action Department at the State Emergency Service, answered these and other questions in an interview with Censor.NET
"WE ARE NOW TRYING TO USE DRONES TO DETECT MINES"
– At the end of last year, while increasing state budget expenditures for the "National Cashback" and "Winter eSupport" programs, the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine did so by cutting funding for other programs. In particular, reductions were made in the general fund under the program "Compensation for Humanitarian Demining of Agricultural Land." In addition, at the end of January this year, the United States suspended all foreign aid programs, which also impacted certain initiatives in Ukraine. Have these changes affected the execution of demining tasks? Has it been felt in your work?
– No, it has not been felt. We are funded through budget allocations designated for the SES. The program you are referring to primarily applied to mine action operators—meaning private companies operating within tenders or other contractual agreements.
At present, we continue to provide rapid response to reports of explosive ordnance discoveries by civilians, conduct demining of critical infrastructure and agricultural land, and carry out priority area surveys for territories requiring clearance.
We receive international funding as part of humanitarian projects, but not in the form of direct financial aid. Instead, support is provided through the supply of demining equipment, machinery, and tools. This assistance has been highly effective, as over the past three years, we have significantly increased our mechanized demining capabilities.
We now have 89 mechanized demining vehicles that are being effectively utilized. It is worth noting that at the beginning of the full-scale invasion, we did not have a single such vehicle. This progress primarily reflects improved personnel safety and greater demining efficiency.
Only time will tell whether our international partners will continue their support. Making predictions at this stage is difficult, as it depends entirely on their capabilities. So far, we have not observed any risks or received any notifications from our partners regarding the suspension of specific projects. Therefore, we remain hopeful that our productive cooperation will continue with both European allies and the United States.
We are engaged in several important joint projects, including partnerships with Japan and South Korea. Overall, we collaborate with a broad network of international partners who provide substantial support.
– You said that over the past three years of full-scale war, you have significantly enhanced your mechanized demining capabilities. Does this mean it helps reduce risks for sappers?
– Yes, we are referring to the remote operation of mechanized demining machines using a control panel from a safe distance. This is extremely important for us, as large areas are now contaminated with anti-personnel and cluster mines that detonate when a deminer approaches. The enemy is using new, particularly dangerous mines, which unfortunately led to casualties last year. That is why we are making every effort to operate remotely, utilizing specialized equipment to ensure the safety of our personnel.
These machines truly save lives. That’s why, when discussing their cost, no monetary equivalent can compare to a human life.
– To what extent do these machines accelerate the demining process?
– I wouldn’t emphasize speed here; I would focus more on safety and efficiency. For example, if we identify a field contaminated with cluster munitions and deploy a machine, it can trigger their detonation, leaving the sapper with only a final inspection to conduct.
If deminers had to clear the area manually, it would be far more dangerous and significantly slower, as they would need to remove each explosive by hand before neutralizing it remotely.
– We see from the news that the Russians are trying to improve their technology and weaponry. Are they also upgrading their mines, or do they have a fixed set that you constantly have to deal with, without any changes?
– Before 2022, there wasn’t such a variety in the use of anti-personnel and anti-tank mines. Now, FPV drones carrying explosives are being actively deployed, and the Russians are constantly improving their initiating action mechanisms.
The same applies to mines. They have newly manufactured mines. Some react to human proximity. Others respond to changes in the magnetic field. If a sapper is carrying any metal objects—such as armor plates or a radio—this could trigger an explosion.
Of course, we are also advancing and implementing innovations in demining. For example, we are now trying to use drones for mine detection, particularly drones equipped with magnetometers. Recently, during a meeting with our partners, we discussed the application of artificial intelligence. The goal is to develop software that can analyze drone imagery and identify objects on the ground.
– Has this technology already been actively used in other countries, or are we pioneers in this field?
– There are probably no technologies with extensive long-term practical use. That’s why, to some extent, we are pioneers—we are among the first to use these technologies in action. But look at what our Armed Forces have accomplished. Who had ever fought using FPV drones before? Hardly anyone else can claim to have changed the battlefield dynamics through them.
The same applies to mines. We will be the first to implement these technologies in real demining operations in the field. And we are fully prepared for this.
– Drones can only capture what is visible. How can they help with mines buried underground?
– We are talking about two types of drones. Mines buried underground can be detected using magnetometers, while surface-laid mines can be identified with the help of artificial intelligence. AI learns by analyzing photographs and, with a certain degree of probability, can determine what exactly is present on the ground.
– But artificial intelligence also makes mistakes. How can these risks be mitigated?
– The more we use it, the more it will learn and improve the accuracy of identification.
Moreover, human is never excluded. This is just like working with mechanical demining machines—there must always be a final verification by a person. A sapper must go through the area with a metal detector, a probe, and all the necessary equipment to ensure the area is truly safe.
– Are you planning to use drones locally to clear small areas, or are you considering a large-scale survey to compile all collected data into a dedicated database? Given the current situation, it's unclear who mined what, where, and how.
– To determine who mined what and where, we need the war to end. We’ve encountered many cases where fields we demined in Kharkiv and Kherson regions were recontaminated within a day or a week. This happens in areas closer to the frontline, where enemy forces can be reached by remote mining.
Of course, in the rear, we can discuss the quality of demining and the further use of land. That’s why we aim to test all these technologies in de-occupied territories—Mykolaiv, Kherson, and Kharkiv regions—where drone operations are feasible.
During this process, we will be developing a database, including one for artificial intelligence. This will allow us to utilize the data generated by our units in future operations.
We also had a very successful and effective project implemented in cooperation with the World Food Organization and with support from our Swiss partners. This involved the analysis of satellite imagery.
Together with the NGO Researchers of Ukraine, we analyzed satellite images of agricultural fields before and after the full-scale invasion. The goal was to determine which areas are currently being used by farmers and which require urgent attention. As a result, we obtained data pinpointing priority locations for our demining units.
Gathering such a vast amount of information all at once is challenging. However, by analyzing satellite images, we can identify areas affected by shelling and mining, as well as those already being used for agricultural production.
We update this data twice a year—before the start of the spring sowing season and after the autumn harvest.
"BOOBY-TRAPS ARE BEING SET UP THAT CAN BE TRIGGERED IN PLACES WHERE THEY ARE LEAST EXPECTED"
– In one of your interviews, you mentioned that only psychic mediums could answer the question of how many years it will take to demine the entire country. But even they would likely struggle, considering the sheer scale of mining in this war.
– That response was meant as a joke, but there’s some truth to it. Only after the war ends, and after conducting a technical survey of the affected areas, will we be able to make any kind of forecast on how many years demining will take.
At the same time, the government has adopted a mine action strategy and an operational plan for its implementation, detailing the necessary steps. We are following it. However, there are objective factors that also influence the process.
– Such as the fields they keep trying to mine again. Do they do it deliberately when they see you clearing them?
– We will only get a definitive answer to that question during interrogations after our victory. But it is possible that this is a deliberate tactic aimed at countering our sappers.
Why, for example, are FPV drones and other UAVs used for repeated strikes when emergency crews are already responding to fires or other aftermaths of hits? The goal is to inflict maximum damage on firefighting units so they are unable to operate. This, in turn, causes even greater harm to both the country's economy and our forces. The same tactic is used against our sappers—booby traps are set in locations where they are least expected. For example, after the de-occupation of the Kyiv region, we found explosive devices inside homes, disguised as household items.
The Russians also deliberately leave booby traps in fields. The enemy's ingenuity in this regard knows no bounds.
– How can we respond to all this quickly and effectively?
– Over the past three years of full-scale war, our sappers have gained an unparalleled level of experience—probably unmatched by any other sappers in the world. They have had to operate in conditions and deal with munitions never encountered before. Of course, this expertise comes with practice and the continuous study of various materials. We strive to ensure that all the information we receive, including from our partners, reaches our units. We have established communication groups where they can exchange experiences. These groups include instructors from higher education institutions, training centers, and all unit commanders.
We are also developing new training programs and improving our training infrastructure. It is crucial to constantly enhance the knowledge and skills of our personnel, as their lives depend on it.
– How do you determine the priority for demining operations?
– From the very beginning of the full-scale war, we established clear demining priorities, and we continue to adhere to them. Our first priority is clearing critical infrastructure, roads, and populated areas. Once that is secured, we move on to farming lands. After that, we address forests and conduct underwater demining operations.
If we talk about the Kyiv, Chernihiv, and Sumy regions—among the first to be liberated—we are already focusing on clearing farmland. All top-priority areas have been demined. However, new shelling sometimes leaves settlements without electricity, which forces us to return to clearing critical infrastructure sites once again.
Currently, our main efforts are concentrated in the Kharkiv, Mykolaiv, Donetsk, and Kherson regions.
– We are shelled by Shaheds every night. Many people have gotten used to it and no longer take shelters. But if an apartment building is hit and partially destroyed, can you explain the correct course of action in such a situation? Should one try to evacuate, risking stepping on something dangerous along the way, or wait for instructions from rescuers?
– Every situation is unique. If there is destruction and it is impossible to evacuate on your own, wait for the rescuers—they will clear the debris and lead you out. Of course, there may be remnants of a Shahed or a missile, so it is crucial to remain extremely cautious and vigilant. Though in such a stressful situation, that can be very difficult.
– If a person is trapped, it is obvious that they need to wait for rescuers. But what about situations where evacuation is possible? Does it make sense to run out immediately?
– It is difficult to give a general answer or predict a specific scenario, as every situation is different. However, the most important thing is to stay as calm as possible and avoid panic.
– Are missiles and Shaheds also being upgraded? Are they being modified to inflict even greater damage?
– Yes, we have encountered missiles equipped with cluster munitions. Currently, the warheads of Shaheds are primarily high-explosive. Their mass is being increased to cause greater destruction. Additionally, thermobaric and dual warheads are being used.
– Payload drones are now being actively used in frontline areas. If a drone drops its payload on a vehicle or a person, it is recorded. Are there cases where drones simply leave explosive devices on streets, rooftops, and other locations, and they fail to detonate? Which services are responsible for responding to such incidents?
– Yes, there are situations where devices fail to detonate. In order to take action, we need information on where exactly the incident occurred and whether the device has been located. The response depends on which service is best suited to handle the situation and where the report was received. It could be our unit, the police, or the military. We operate according to established protocols.
– What happens if an unexploded device is not found in time and someone steps on it?
– Unfortunately, that does happen. That's why it's crucial to stay extremely vigilant, especially in regions near the front line.
– In some countries, so-called "no-go zones" remained after the war. Is there a risk of such zones appearing in Ukraine?
– I can't comment on that, as this issue has not been discussed with us. This falls outside the competence of the SES.
– Does the SES adopt experience from countries that have dealt with large-scale landmine contamination, and how is this experience integrated into your operations?
– We have studied the experiences of Croatia, Cambodia, and Lebanon. They have valuable practices worth considering. However, the scale of what is happening in Ukraine is incomparable to any other country.
We have adopted best practices from our international colleagues, such as using detection dogs for demining. We also employ foreign-made mechanical demining machines. As I mentioned earlier, we had none of these before. Now, we provide feedback to the manufacturers on necessary improvements. Because Ukrainian soil has its own specific characteristics, and it is significantly different from, for example, the soil in Lebanon or Cambodia, where it is mostly sand. Our chernozem is tough to get through. The machines get overloaded and break down. That’s why we maintain communication with the manufacturers, exchanging insights to resolve issues quickly and enhance efficiency.
Tetiana Bodnia, Censor.NET
