Vitalii Shabunin: Had there been no war, conversation with this government would have been entirely different
The case of Vitalii Shabunin has sparked wide public resonance and is actively discussed in the media, political, and military circles. The head of the Anti-Corruption Center and serviceman has been charged by the State Bureau of Investigation (SBI). According to the investigation, he evaded service and unlawfully received payments.
Search warrants were conducted at his family home and at the military unit in Kharkiv region where he serves. All this was done without a court order, as required by law. Investigators seized mobile phones, laptops, a tablet, and a watch. Subsequently, the court imposed a personal recognizance on Vitalii, under which he must remain at the military unit in Kharkiv region until August 20. The head of the Anti-Corruption Center’s defense team will file an appeal, as Vitalii mentioned in our interview. We spoke by phone on Friday evening because, according to him, the State Bureau of Investigation decided to cancel the interrogations scheduled for that day. Thus, the interviewee had to urgently travel from Kyiv to Kharkiv region on Thursday, July 17, to comply with the court’s decision.
- To start, tell me, what’s the situation like there?
- It’s okay. I’m handling everyday life, settling into my permanent duty station, cleaning, tidying up the place. I’m thinking about where to get a pump to draw water from the well, if possible. Because the day after I first arrived here, they conducted a search. Obviously, I didn’t get a chance to sort out any household matters then.
- You mentioned that on Thursday and today, Friday, you were supposed to have more interrogations at the SBI in Kyiv. So, were they canceled?
- Yes. On Wednesday, during the interrogation, the investigator handed me a document stating that the interrogations scheduled for Thursday and Friday were canceled. Accordingly, I have to follow the court’s decision, to come here to my village, which was publicly announced. It’s a very small place where everyone knows each other. The nearest frontline is about 30 kilometers away. Regarding tasks, we’ll be even closer than now. Thanks to the guys from the SBI, I’m very well recognized here. If I were the Russians, I’d have taken me out already. And then Zelenskyy can claim it wasn’t him. Why announce the location? They even leaked the suspicion document on channels connected to the Office of the President without redacting it. And they imposed a court decision on me forbidding me to leave here. Completely reckless!
Why do I react so emotionally? Because if the goal was simply to shut me up as a serviceman, there are a hundred legal ways to do it without any scandal. For example, to order me to guard an ammunition depot where no devices should be at all. I’d stay quiet, no complaints, just following orders.
- Why are you giving them tips?
- These are basic things!
- What was the reason for canceling the scheduled interrogations? Was the goal to keep you physically out of Kyiv?
- Yes. The purpose of canceling the interrogations was to disrupt several important meetings I had with international partners and some crucial broadcasts.
- Before leaving on Thursday morning, you held a briefing where you demanded either a public apology from the SBI or the issuance of a new suspicion regarding the alleged illegal use of a vehicle mentioned in the bureau’s official statement. Has there been any response?
- No, there isn’t. I’m still waiting for the suspicion notice. This isn’t a joke! It’s not like those lies they constantly spread about me during Zelenskyy’s time. For example, in this case, they write things like "draft dodger," "combat pay," "stole a vehicle," and so on. With those, it’s clear, pure internal propaganda. But the vehicle allegation appeared on the official website of a law enforcement agency! The Ministry of Defense lies all the time, everyone is used to that by now. But a law enforcement agency? It publicly accuses a person across the whole country without having the documents to back it up. That can’t be! It crosses all boundaries! So, either the suspicion notice, or an apology, or let Sukhachov (the SBI director – О.М.) resign.
- Did you discuss this possible suspicion regarding the vehicle with the investigators during the interrogations?
- No. They summoned me for questioning in this case after the suspicion was issued and after what can only be called "Yanukovych-style" actions during the searches. So, there was no point in talking to them during interrogations after that.
I asked them about the vehicle in court, on camera. But they’re just executors! My specific complaint is with the head of the institution: either issue the suspicion, or a formal apology, or resign. There are no other options, you know? This is a blatant lie.
- Let’s remind readers what this is about: businessmen from the CEO Club provided you with a 2005 Nissan Pathfinder. Club member Dmytro Bohuslavskyi stated that the vehicle was given voluntarily, in accordance with the law, and that they have no claims against you. So, what are the questions regarding your use of this off-the-road vehicle?
- Actually, that’s the same question I have. There’s no room to manipulate the articles here. So, they do it through public accusations. If they issue me a suspicion for using this vehicle, it means the same could be done to all servicemen who use vehicles from charitable foundations in the same way. There are two ways vehicles are transferred to servicemen by charities. The first is when the vehicle is registered to the military unit, with black plates, lots of paperwork, and headaches. The second is when the vehicle remains with the charity, and servicemen are given its use. If you see cars with foreign plates, so-called "shitbox" (used vehicles still running for some time - ed.note) they were transferred that way. There aren’t just dozens of such vehicles, but hundreds of thousands. So, should each one of them get a suspicion? They know all this! The head of the law enforcement agency officially lied about the suspicion so that anonymous Telegram channels would spread it. He has sunk below even the level of "The Joker" and his gang. This is beyond limits. Throughout this whole story, I’ve felt that "Yanukovych-era stench" several times. You know, I remembered how Tatarov sat at the table convincing diplomats and journalists that we, the "Maidan activists," shot ourselves in the back of the head. Now it’s the same "stench."
- I was thinking that we Ukrainians tend to bicker among ourselves. But right now, the war should be our top priority, where all possible efforts should be directed…
- "We" meaning who?
- Ukrainians.
- I don’t see that at the SBI. And for the SSU lieutenant colonel, one of the key counterintelligence officers on the operational front, the priority was to steal my phone. The judge in the Pecherskyi court didn’t even want to follow the law. So, for us, the war is the priority, but for them, it seems not so much.
- By the way, about the phone. Is it with the investigators?
- Yes. And they have the computer too. My wife’s as well. Also, her phone and the older child’s, plus the younger one’s tablet.
- What are they looking for in a child's tablet?
- Apparently, I wasn’t supposed to work on the NACP tasks on that phone. Are there any documents on it? No? Then I didn’t work on it! Because that’s what the official accusation is about. But what’s the mess here? Let’s start from the beginning. I voluntarily enlisted on the first day of the full-scale war. We were preparing for it since all international media were already reporting on Russian troops at the border. We had an office in Podil, with a basement, a bomb shelter, and a hospital. Everything was organized. On day one, along with many great Kyiv residents, we lined up to join the Territorial Defense Forces to mobilize and get weapons. I’ve been in the army for three and a half years. And now it turns out that the SBI doesn’t like how I served for five months from September 2022 to January 2023, when I was on temporary duty with the NACP. During that time, my unit was stationed in the Kyiv region, in Sukholuchchia, for example. So, the story that Shabunin dodged the army is a lie. Just like the claim that when his battalion was fighting, he was hanging out in Kyiv restaurants. And here’s the interesting part: the SBI does not accuse me of doing anything illegal. There is an active commander’s order for temporary duty, which I fulfilled. And by this so-called "doing nothing," I supposedly evaded service. You know what’s the most interesting part of all this?
- What?
- The SBI hasn’t once asked me over the past year and a half what exactly I did at the NACP. Nor did they ask the then-head of the agency, Oleksandr Novikov, who officially requested my temporary duty, or his first deputy Artem Sytnyk, with whom I interacted. In other words, they haven’t asked anyone! They only requested temporary access from the new NACP head, who responded that Shabunin did not have a permanent workplace, was not constantly at the NACP, and did not hold a position there. But none of these three points relate to the performance of functions! If they had summoned me or the former NACP leadership for questioning, we would have explained in detail what we were doing. Because we already provided this information during NABU interrogations in a similar case, where the focus was on asking the key figures: "Did you really request this person’s temporary duty? For what purpose? What exactly did they do? Did they achieve the goal?" Again, I felt like it was Yanukovych times when we asked the court to include the interrogation protocols of Sytnyk and Novikov in the case materials. Like all our other evidence. Let me explain why. There are two key questions the court must answer regarding the preventive measure. The first and most important: is the suspicion lawful? Are there sufficient grounds for it? If the court has included in the case materials a document where two leaders (Sytnyk and Novikov) state, "He performed his work at the NACP," then the suspicion that "he did not perform the work" cannot be lawful at all. The only way for this whole Zelenskyy gang to keep the suspicion against me was to exclude these materials from the proceedings. So, the court’s decision was: the suspicion is lawful, and the preventive measure is imposed, thereby legalizing it. As you remember, we had conflicts with the previous authorities too, very serious ones. But there was no such "Yanukovych-style" approach. And that’s a big difference.
Here’s another example of how I felt like it was Yanukovych times. Suddenly, I’m transferred from logistics forces in Kharkiv to a mechanized brigade in eastern Kharkiv region. I arrive, spend the first night there, and in the morning start settling in. My commander says, "Two SSU officers (Counterintelligence Department employee - from the Military Counterintelligence Department) will come. Talk to them." It’s a standard procedure. It’s normal to have briefings with newcomers. I sit down to talk with them. One sits at the table with me. To give you an idea, his rank is lieutenant colonel. He’s one of the key counterintelligence officers in this area.
The usual conversation starts: phone, geolocation, what I can or can’t use, all that story. What could I possibly hide from them?! I am a serviceman of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The person in front of me is an SSU officer. Am I supposed to see him as an enemy or what?! And then the SBI operational team storms in and detains me. Meanwhile, the SSU lieutenant colonel, like some rat, runs off with my phone in hand. I was repeating on the SBI camera what’s happening to document everything. This is theft. Now he has to somehow return the phone. But how? There’s no legal way to keep dragging this out. The search lasts about two and a half hours. They seized my computer, another phone, a flip phone, by the way, which actually saved me, because thanks to it the lawyers were able to come at night. In short, they’re packing everything up, when suddenly a voice from outside shouts: "There’s a phone lying here under the threshold!" And an SBI operative walks in with a phone exactly like mine, unlocked. Such lawlessness! Truly Yanukovych-level.
- The search lasted about 15 hours. What took them so long?
- Most of the time they were just copying the contents of the phone that the SBI agent brought in. What appeared on it while it was with the SSU officers, I have no idea. We’ve been trying for days to get at least something. Right now, my main goal is to show the public this moment: "Oh, there’s some phone lying here under the threshold!" We’re trying to get the simplest thing from them, video footage of the search. Simple story!
- What’s their response?
- Procedurally, they can drag it out indefinitely. But if you guys have nothing to hide, then what’s the problem?! Come on — show it!
- At the same time, searches were also conducted at your home…
- You know, I’m currently learning a lesson about love for people. In Christianity, there’s a clear teaching: to love not just your enemies, but people who consciously do evil. So during the search, I paused and thought about this. I even offered them coffee. It was night, lawyers were already there, and I had the chance to text my wife. We hadn’t spoken all day, and I thought she was worried. I sent a message, but she didn’t receive it. Immediately, I pictured them searching my family as well. At that moment, I didn’t just lack love for those people, it went negative. So, no coffee for the guys.
- To me, the main thing at that moment was: you didn’t know what was happening there…
- Exactly. And imagine, at home, two small kids and a not-so-healthy dad, and these guys burst in fully geared up. Special "greetings" to the SBI specialists who psychologically pressured my wife with questions about the kids’ safety.
- Was that the plan all along?
- Of course! Because it distracts resources from what really matters.
But honestly, I’ll tell you this: my wife turned out to be psychologically much more stable than me. She’s amazing! She endured it all. Now she jokes about the phone’s contents. We basically have a long-distance relationship, like many servicemen and their wives. Such relationships require a certain specific kind of content. And she says, "For two years, I’ve been trying to find the strength and opportunity to go to the gym. I have nothing to be ashamed of!"
- The searches related to your case are ongoing. Recently, SBI agents came to the apartment of the mother of the fallen pilot, Hero of Ukraine Andriy "Dzhus"("Juice") Pilshchykov. What are they looking for there?
- And they conduct these searches without court warrants as well. The law provides a very narrow list of reasons for such actions: to save people, protect property, or directly pursue a suspect. What could they possibly find in Ms. Liliia’s apartment, where I’m not physically present?! Why are you breaking in without a court order?! Just like at my place, where I haven’t been for six months because I was serving in Kharkiv. There’s no logic here at all. It’s just a desire for a showy crackdown.
I’m convinced this story serves several purposes. Imagine I’m part of the political elite, I’m Zelenskyy, and with my circle, I want to steal now and then get re-elected because the elections will happen anyway. For that to happen, I need to solve two key problems. First, there must be few scandals about my thefts. Second, when I or my people steal, NABU and SAPO shouldn’t come after us like they did with Chernyshov. Those are the two tasks I have to solve if I want to steal. So, I need to get rid of the organization that constantly informs the media about my theft attempts and the bills I want to pass to limit NABU and SAPO’s activities. That’s why it’s important to remove the Anti-Corruption Center with Shabunin. But there’s another very important goal for them, to show two groups that they can catch anyone in a demonstratively arbitrary way. The first group, obviously, is anti-corruption activists, investigative journalists, and media editors. The second - the military. Because I was caught on a military charge. They potentially pose a huge problem for Zelenskyy ahead of elections that will happen someday. The military will ask: "Why wasn’t the country ready for war? Why were eggs 17 hryvnias when we were fighting?" and so on. They don’t ask now because it’s not the time. But the time will come. So today, they need to show everyone, at least media servicemen, that they can finish off anyone. And worst of all, they can legally do this to each of them. For example, if a soldier dismantled ammunition, converting it into a drone payload, that’s a crime. And they can jail not only him but also anyone who was nearby. Their commander will get even longer in prison. Now remember the first six months of the full-scale war, when documents were backdated. What to say about accounting for ammunition and even fuel. I don’t think my case will be the only one. There will be more such military-related stories. Honestly, it will backfire on them. But they still want to send a signal.
- Why did they come after you just now?
- I thought they needed this case to create information occasions for constant discrediting on Telegram channels. They got access to my wife’s phones, conducted interrogations, a pretext to write things like, "Shabunin stole a car from soldiers in the trenches." That idiotic narrative.
So, where was the order to start this "fight"? I have two guesses. First, Chernyshov. He’s very, very close to the president. I think the bar has dropped so low that Zelenskyy said: "Shut down NABU and SAPO immediately!" And the Anti-Corruption Center objectively hinders this.
Second — because together with the media, we "killed" that bill that could have legalized abuses in arms procurement. It’s now impossible to pass through parliament. And this has greatly angered Zelenskyy’s team, at least. There were 123 "Servants of the People" who signed it, I remind you. I think these two stories really triggered Zelenskyy. And one more thing, personally, in my communications, the Anti-Corruption Center and I stopped mentioning Yermak, Tatarov, Umerov, or "Servants of the People." To me, it’s all Zelenskyy. No intermediaries. The responsibility lies with him because he could have stopped this at any moment. Even if he didn’t give an order, not stopping it means he at least supports it.
- Behind the scenes, people say you weren’t touched before because you had a sort of conditional immunity from the US Embassy during Biden’s presidency. Now that the administration has changed, that protection’s gone. What do you say to that?
- It’s a strange situation: some foreign government was defending a Ukrainian citizen from the idiotic actions of the Ukrainian authorities. If people say that, I’ll remind Zelenskyy that during Yanukovych’s time no one protected me. Just like thousands of others who later turned into millions at Maidan. Tell those who say such things: if Biden was the obstacle to behaving like petty dictators, and now you’ve fully revealed yourselves, then, friends, the problem isn’t the former US president but your values.
Look, overall, this is a very bad story. Next year, we apparently lack coverage for about 20 billion dollars. We don’t know where we’ll get that money. The West promises to give us a sizable amount more. But first, they have to get that money from their own voters. It’s one thing when Western voters fund a democracy that protects itself from authoritarianism. It’s another when this happens. It’s very hard to be a democracy in their eyes when you’re chasing anti-corruption critics (and then the media will also get involved — you’ll see). And the Russians will spread this even further! That’s why Zelenskyy’s actions are seriously harming the country, including his efforts to raise money for the war.
- I remember that initially, the SBI requested that I wear an electronic bracelet. But then that disappeared. Why?
- At the end of the search, they handed me the preventive measure request, which called for detention. The investigators justified throughout the document why I needed to be held in custody. But when they saw the media reaction, they probably backed off. Then there was the bracelet. And by the time it went to court, they presented a new position, to proceed without it. I think it was precisely to have the ability to shut me up. Because the original court document included the bracelet and a ban on leaving the settlement without prosecutor or court permission. That meant I couldn’t be sent somewhere I wouldn’t be able to speak out, since most of the village where I’m located has signal. But they removed the bracelet, so now they can send me anywhere. I just don’t see another explanation.
- The prosecutors in court pointed out that the least restrictive preventive measure was chosen for you, a personal recognizance…
- But there are nuances. From the investigation’s perspective, this preventive measure makes no sense because I’m still stuck in this village. I’m a serviceman. This is my permanent duty station. I only leave for missions. The court hearing wasn’t about the preventive measure, it was to legalize a stupid suspicion. That’s why they asked for the minimum, so the judge could supposedly review the evidence a bit.
- You’re going to appeal the court’s decision, right?
- Of course! We’re waiting for the full text. But we can already state obvious violations during the trial, judicial bias, and a ruling not provided for by law.
- Going back to what we started with: if interrogations were canceled this week, logically, they still have to happen…
- Olia, what logic? Not this case.
- By the way, in one of your interviews, when talking about law enforcement agencies, you said: "Let’s give them all a chance to come out of this story with 'beautiful faces.'" What do you mean by that?
- It’s simple: don’t "steamroll" the appeal. Just don’t interfere! The whole case falls apart the moment the interrogation protocols of Sytnyk and Novikov are included in the materials. The crime disappears! Because their entire accusation is that I did nothing during my temporary duty at the NACP, so supposedly I was evading service while also receiving combat pay. But that’s not true! I didn’t have combat pay then! And 50,000 hryvnias is the minimum payment for all servicemen, including those in Chernivtsi, Lviv, or Cherkasy. Once the court includes those protocols, that’s it, the suspicion is unlawful, and the case is over.
- So where are the "beautiful faces" then, if the suspicion is declared unlawful?
- Then it’ll turn out that the idiots are the SBI. But sooner or later, the court process will prove that.
Look, they’ll "steamroll" the appeal because it’s war now. That’s standard practice. Want me to explain how they do it?
- Tell us.
- Every judge has someone close serving in the military. It’s easy to cause you huge problems if you’re in the army. And even easier to scare your relatives with such threats.
In fact, had there been no war, conversation with this government would have been entirely different. Yes, they hold in their hands what none of their predecessors ever had. It’s a great sin to abuse power during wartime, especially against your own citizens. But God is just. Yes, long-suffering, merciful, but still just. And everyone will have to answer one way or another, my friends. God willing, the war will end, and there will be a very different conversation. And they know this well! That’s why this signal to the military, which I told you about, is so important to them right now.
Olha Moskaliuk, Censor.NET
