Yurii Butusov: Instead of recruiting foreign assault troops, state is taking taxpayers away from their jobs
Yurii Butusov, commander of a UAV company of the 23rd Assault Regiment within the 2nd Corps of the National Guard’s Khartiia, spoke during a livestream about the advantages of bringing in foreign fighters, recruitment problems, and the need for Ukraine to adopt a systematic approach to scaling up this area.
The main topic today is whether it is advantageous for Ukraine to wage war using foreign fighters, and why the Ukrainian authorities are still hesitating and cannot implement what would seem to be such an obvious step: bringing foreign fighters into the country on a large scale.
I am in constant contact with leaders at various levels, trying to lobby for this issue so that foreign fighters can be brought into Ukraine in their thousands and cover a significant part of the mobilization target with foreign fighters rather than Ukrainians.
I have now left the 13th Khartiia Brigade of the National Guard, in which I had the honor of fighting as a UAV platoon commander. I was transferred with my unit to the 2nd Corps of the National Guard’s Khartiia. A new combat unit, the 23rd Assault Regiment, has been created within the corps. This assault regiment is being manned with foreign assault troops, while my platoon was transferred in order to support assault operations as part of the 23rd Assault Regiment. My UAV platoon is now being expanded into a company.
Recently, we have managed to do a great deal to bring more than one platoon up to strength. Through the courts, thanks to the support and assistance of the Khartiia Brigade, our lawyer Mykhailo, whom we greatly respect, and with the assistance of the Military Law Enforcement Service in Kharkiv region, the State Bureau of Investigation, the Prosecutor General’s Office, and the courts of Kharkiv region, over the past eight months we have managed to have more than 60 fighters who were wanted for unauthorized absence from their unit assigned to our unit through court proceedings. We have also added more than 30 foreign volunteers from Colombia and Latin America, and now have two fighters from Poland serving with us. In other words, we are reinforcing the unit with people from wherever it is possible to do so. The platoon has now been expanded into a company within the 23rd Assault Regiment of the 2nd Khartiia Corps.
Therefore, one can say that there are more than 30 foreigners under my command. All the fighters from Latin America who serve in my unit have fought in Ukraine under one to four infantry contracts. Only after they gained significant infantry experience and very strong recommendations were they assigned to the unit. They are now involved in supporting the work of UAV units, working as Mavic operators and conducting engineer reconnaissance in the kill zone, carrying out very important and dangerous tasks.
When I see the assault operations carried out by the 23rd Assault Regiment, when I see how foreigners work as part of my platoon, which is now being expanded into a company, I understand that foreigners are needed. By the way, I should say that we currently need reinforcements, so if anyone is thinking about serving in the army, serving in the defense forces, or gaining truly unique experience working with foreign fighters and drones, I invite everyone to transfer, mobilize, and join my unit. We will provide maximum assistance. Of course, transfers from other units of the defense forces are very difficult, but those who were civilians and are considering serving in the army, or those who are absent without leave, even if there is already a criminal case against them, please contact us. We will help, and I would be glad to serve and fight alongside you.
Answers to questions
What about Counter-Strike fans in Ukraine? What, has Ukraine run out of men? How many of them are in bars and gyms, or out walking with girls in the evenings? For the millions of Ukrainian men who could be brought into the Armed Forces of Ukraine, liability for draft evasion simply needs to be increased.
Liability for draft evasion should be increased only after the state develops some clear and transparent mobilization system. We hear that the Ministry of Defense is preparing a new mobilization law or new changes to the mobilization rules. I hope those problematic issues that, in reality, prevent mobilization in Ukraine from being regarded as a system will be addressed there.
Will there be changes to the status of those who have gone AWOL? People wait for six months while in AWOL status, while there is a shortage of personnel at the front. Can I come to your unit if I am AWOL? And do you need people in your ranks?
Dear Ivan, please message me privately. You can write to me on Messenger or here, or on Instagram. I will read it all. Of course, we need fighters, and for completely different positions. Naturally, we need a clerk, we need drivers, we need ordinary fighters who can be trained to work with drones and in various specialties. We need spotters, pilots, and navigators for different types of drones. So, of course, please get in touch. As I said, we have managed, through the courts, to return more than 60 fighters who had gone AWOL to service. The situation with AWOL cases is certainly critical and requires a systemic decision by the state. Because there really are cases when motivated people are involved. The fastest that people have come to me through court proceedings was two months. That is the fastest, but such cases are very rare. On average, a person in an AWOL case is transferred to us in about four months. But unfortunately, we have two sad cases in which people spent eight months having their status regularized while in AWOL status.
Eight months. These very worthy fighters, servicemen in reality, worked in our unit all that time, performed combat missions, and carried out their duties as full-fledged regular servicemen, though of course without weapons. But since we are fairly close to the combat zone, they were certainly taking risks together with us. We supported these people at our own expense: the unit chipped in, and I chipped in, of course, to support fighters who are in AWOL status, who have no salary, who also have families and need something to live on. This is very difficult for people. Nevertheless, they go through it, and I am grateful to all the fighters.
I want to say that many real warriors came to us from AWOL status, very honest, patriotic citizens who carry out combat missions honorably, act with dedication, risk themselves, and give themselves fully to the defense of Ukraine. Therefore, there are different kinds of people among those who are AWOL: there are draft evaders, there are offenders, and there are people who, in fact, simply do not want to serve. But a large number of the military personnel who are in AWOL status are absolutely worthy citizens who were simply unlucky with their unit environment, with their commanders at some stage, or with the situations they found themselves in; people who became somewhat confused or did not find an adequate solution from their commanders. And that happens in war; in some units, it is very widespread.
That is why I treat all servicemen who are in AWOL status with respect. We provide an opportunity for support and for testing in real conditions, and we try to involve all worthy people as quickly as possible.
Can Russian citizens get into your unit?
Not directly into my unit, no. But within the Khartiia Corps, if they apply through the Security Service of Ukraine and receive permission from them after passing checks, I think it is entirely realistic. If you are a Russian who is motivated to take part in assault operations and to undergo a real close-combat test in battle against Putin’s horde, then why not? Get in touch, write to me. In accordance with my official duties, I will simply notify the relevant structures and agencies, and you will have an opportunity to be tested in combat, to be tested through assault operations. After that, it will be possible to consider positions in UAV units as well. But to begin with, all Russians who, I think, enter this process, and we can see this from the fighters of the Russian Volunteer Corps (RVC - ed.), are people who undergo a test by combat. This is the best test available under such conditions and, as you understand, with such a status.
Mr. Butusov, it is not profitable for the authorities to hire foreigners because they can terminate their contract at any moment, turn around, and leave. But a Ukrainian can be grabbed on the street, and he will stay until the end — otherwise, AWOL or prison.
This problem does exist. But for many months, and even years, Ukraine’s entire leadership has been talking about it: the president, the Cabinet of Ministers, the Staff of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, several defense ministers, and the Verkhovna Rada. Yet the result is simply negligible. Negligible because, in reality, in order to build a system for bringing in foreigners, at least some minimal... maximum attention to this process is needed. This cannot happen by itself in the state. What does happen by itself here? Busification (a colloquial Ukrainian term describing individuals transported to recruitment facilities by van - ed.) happens. TCR and SS (Territorial Centre of Recruitment and Social Support - ed.) millionaires, military officials in the TCR and SS — many of them have also become dollar millionaires. Many doctors who issue certificates have also become dollar millionaires. I think dozens of officials have become multimillionaires during the war. Because mobilizing Ukrainians is profitable. Mobilization can be carried out among Ukrainians, while some businesspeople come to officials and say, "Include my employees on the mobilization exemption list". Not for free. And thank you for that. Everything is profitable. Mobilizing people with official employment is profitable. Profitable. Is it profitable to forcibly take people off the streets in vans? It is profitable because some of them deal with it right there on the spot. We know many public statements in the media about people buying their way out at different levels. And the State Bureau of Investigation and the police have opened many criminal cases over this. That is, catching people is profitable for those who do it. For a certain share of dishonest people. There are conscientious TCR and SS servicemen, and there are those against whom criminal cases are regularly opened. It turns out to be profitable. Because some dishonest people take something from someone. Some bribes, some forms of gratitude as well, to remove someone from the register, to let someone leave the TCR and SS or a training unit, to declare someone unfit. All of this is profitable.
But bringing in foreigners is not profitable. Because from a foreign fighter who has a volunteer contract in Ukraine, not a single kopeck can be taken by any of our military or state leaders at any level. Nothing at all. Because when foreign fighters are brought here, there are two categories of them.
There are people who come voluntarily. A voluntary service contract was created for them in 2022. They serve for six months, and they can terminate the contract and return home at any moment. Because there are no obligations. Unlike Ukrainians, foreign servicemen have no criminal liability for terminating their contract. At any moment, a person can turn around and leave. That is why we have developed a system in which it is impossible to put administrative pressure on these people or demand money from them when they come. I know of two such cases. Perhaps there were several more. There was one case in which citizens simply transferred money without any advertising, asked to remain anonymous, and provided funds simply because they do not want to watch Ukrainians die. They do not want Ukrainians to be torn away from their jobs and from paying taxes. And they want those who are ready, who are physically and mentally prepared, who are ready to take risks, to be the ones fighting. Not foreigners. (The context suggests the speaker may have meant Ukrainians - ed.) And I will tell you honestly: I am struck by the fact that there are so many people in Ukraine who spend money just like that, even though they do not need to. They do it in order to bring in foreigners, while the state, which collects taxpayers’ money, instead of preserving those taxpayers and using the money collected from them to hire foreign fighters, pays no attention to foreign fighters, grabs those very same taxpayers, and tries to turn them into assault troops.
I want to say that in the fifth year of the war, finding people fit for assault operations, healthy people first and foremost, is an extremely difficult story. I am not even talking about motivation. Today, an infantryman has to be a physically healthy person, because entering a position is usually done on foot due to the high activity of enemy drones. And the army needs people in the infantry who can walk 20 kilometers, sometimes up to 30 kilometers, sometimes over more than one day, two or three days, and sometimes there are week-long movements into positions. These have to be physically strong people who can carry everything they need for a long time, hide, run quickly, be resilient, then shelter in dugouts without any opportunity to stretch or rest, and remain in position for a long time. All of this requires physically healthy people; motivation alone is simply not enough. Nevertheless, in the fifth year of the war, we are not making systemic efforts; we are not doing everything necessary to bring in foreigners.
Apart from the reasons I have mentioned, that foreigners are not profitable because it is more profitable to grab Ukrainians and mobilize Ukrainians, I simply see no other logic. I do not understand why all of this is not being given attention by the state at the highest level. This is, without question, irresponsibility on the part of the authorities.
How much longer do you think the war will last?
I think a couple of years for sure. Many people are shouting about the end of the war. I answer such questions on almost every broadcast. I can tell you that the war will end at the moment when Ukraine’s Defense Forces stop the Russian offensive by force of arms and stabilize the front. And after some time, after several months, when Russia understands that, apart from heavy losses, it cannot seize another meter of Ukrainian land, and can only lose ground. After that, the war will really start coming to an end. Putin will be forced into peace. This is the same Korean scenario as in the Korean War of 1950-1953, when there is no peace agreement, but hostilities are effectively halted.
What is the current situation with drones supplied by the state? You said that 90% were provided by volunteers. Has anything changed?
Well, 90% being volunteer-supplied was a very long time ago. That changed several years ago. Now most drones come from the state. But without volunteer assistance, it is still, of course, impossible to carry out missions. Volunteer drones, equipment, and the infrastructure needed to operate drones now account for a smaller share of the overall supply, but it is still such a large share that the front would not have held without this assistance either. Therefore, support for those who raise funds for drones for the military, direct support for military units, and direct support for manufacturers of drones, equipment, and infrastructure for their use - all of this remains, as before, a key factor in Ukraine’s combat capability and in faster adaptation and faster changes in the drone war.
Therefore, unfortunately, the state still cannot fully meet this need, not even by 90%, not even by 70%.
Is artillery still important at the front now? Or has its importance declined sharply since drones began to dominate?
The importance of artillery has certainly declined, but it has not disappeared. I do not think it will disappear at all. At the moment, because of the characteristics of drones, even very advanced long-range ones, artillery has its own very important niche. On the section of the front where I am directly involved, artillery plays a very important role. And superiority in artillery is decisive in many battles for both sides. So I actually believe that artillery is currently seriously underestimated in our country. And we need significantly more artillery at the front, of several types. We need shells. Not only long-range shells, but also short-range shells, which in fact can be produced and used in much larger quantities. But this requires special tactics. Artillery cannot operate independently now.
Any units and subunits operating in the kill zone, including artillery, must be used as part of a larger system, as part of a complex in which engineer units, electronic warfare units, and UAV units operate. These UAV units must cover artillery, provide cover, organize counter-drone air defense, adjust artillery fire, and work together with artillery to strike targets. Yes, this is necessary, and the effectiveness of drones as part of a complex, in combination with artillery, increases the effectiveness of both drones and artillery fire many times over. Therefore, people who say that artillery is finished and no longer needed simply do not understand the realities of the war.
Today, Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Oleksandr Syrskyi published a concept for the use of artillery and rocket forces and for the development of the Rocket Forces and Artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. That concept, those few phrases published online, looks encouraging: artillery has not been abandoned. Artillery is a development priority, as is the development of domestic artillery, domestic ammunition, and means of destruction that must be used in combination with short-, medium-, and long-range missile weapons.
I believe that artillery remains, as it has always been, one of the key elements of fire engagement against the enemy. Therefore, it requires systematic development. And I want to say that in some sectors where we have problems with the number of guns and with poor support for the organization of artillery units in terms of personnel and engineer assets, the enemy gains superiority in artillery, and this is very difficult. Thanks to this, the enemy is able, with great difficulty, to gain significant tactical advantages in some sectors. This is a problem at the front, and a serious one.
One of the deputy ministers said at Honcharenko’s commission that few foreigners are being recruited because there are few officers who know Spanish. Not everyone, after all, studied Spanish at Shevchenko University as you did. Is this really a problem?
There is a certain problem here, but it is not the key one. To be honest, I would not have mentioned it at a Verkhovna Rada commission. In my unit, other fighters and commanders do not speak Spanish. But this does not prevent them from communicating, commanding, and interacting with Spanish-speaking personnel. It simply requires a certain level of preparation and training. That is, Colombians and Latin Americans learn certain commands in Ukrainian. They train together with us, with Ukrainian pilots and controllers at the command post. And they learn, they understand our language and the specifics of the work. It becomes easier for them to communicate; they learn Ukrainian words and phrases. Likewise, our fighters and commanders who interact with them learn certain Spanish words and phrases and use numerous online translators. Translators, for example, through a phone. You say a phrase in Ukrainian, and it is automatically translated into Spanish right there and voiced in Spanish. And vice versa. Therefore, where precise commands are needed, we generally write them down and issue instructions in writing. That is, we work on coordination. And, for example, in positions where Ukrainian drone operators and Colombians work together, they work jointly, they constantly study one another, they communicate, and therefore there are no such problems. I would say that the main problem in managing foreigners and foreign volunteers is understanding the psychology of these people and the specifics of how to employ them.
Over the past two weeks, I have seen a lot of criticism of Minister Fedorov. Is this objective criticism or a targeted campaign?
In politics, there is nothing terrible about politicians being criticized. This is generally a normal situation. Anyone who takes any public office must be ready for criticism. Secondly, there are certain things that were announced, and when they are not implemented for a long time, people have the right to criticize. At the same time, it cannot be ruled out that there are some commissioned elements as well.
Work is impossible without criticism. As for anyone, including my own work, I treat competent criticism with respect, and incompetent criticism with the understanding that people also have the right to say something.
Is Ukraine creating recruitment offices in other countries?
I do not think the state has the right, as a state, to create recruitment offices in other countries, because I do not think any country would officially welcome that. In reality, there is no need for it. This should be recruitment and a private matter. It should be the work of some special recruitment structures that must act at their own risk, make arrangements, negotiate, select people, and receive some kind of remuneration based on the results. That would be a normal system.
As far as I know, Defense Minister Mykhailo Fedorov has developed a very interesting comprehensive reform regarding the bringing in of foreigners. I simply hope that this reform will be implemented within a short timeframe, so that it at least starts working this year.
It seems to me that the logic behind it, and the figures for bringing in foreign fighters, would, in principle, improve the situation and significantly help systemic work on bringing in foreigners. But again, this is a project.
Now, regarding the bringing in of foreigners. I am talking about the actual situation, about results. And I assess this situation by results. Because every month that we continue discussing some beautiful resolutions, projects, presentations, and slides, Ukrainians are dying, and thousands of Ukrainians continue to be mobilized. Instead of bringing in foreigners. Right now, Khartiia has almost 2,000 foreign fighters in the queue. We cannot bring them in because the state is not allocating resources for this. And money from volunteers and patrons is finite. I repeat: I am shocked that the state wants first and foremost to mobilize taxpayers, to get them somewhere, to pull them out of their workplaces. Instead of using the money these taxpayers pay to keep them at their jobs, and bring in foreigners.
I spoke with entrepreneurs from the CEO Club in Kyiv. This is a club of entrepreneurs. I believe this is genuinely something businesses need, and it should be lobbied by everyone. My view is that under the current conditions, if an enterprise that is surviving in Ukraine under such difficult circumstances finances, once a year and in addition to its taxes, the bringing in of a certain number of foreign fighters, then it should receive mobilization exemptions for an equivalent number of employees for one year. That is, this company can pay taxes and can additionally finance foreign fighters. Why are they taking away taxpayers? Let them work more, and the following year, we will bring in more fighters through the same company. Because we have nowhere to bring new Ukrainians from. But we can bring in foreigners. That is why I believe that a business that finances the bringing in of foreigners should receive an equivalent number of mobilization exemption slots for Ukrainian men who work there, in that company. It seems to me that this is a reasonable scheme. And it can be implemented every year. It is beneficial for everyone. Because in the fifth year of the war, if we continue at this pace, simply taking people from places where they are officially employed and receive salaries, then it is indeed possible to end up with no manufacturing enterprises at all.
What is your attitude toward PMCs, private military companies? They could handle reconnaissance, electronic warfare, electronic intelligence, logistics, security, and training.
Private military companies face certain limitations. It’s only in films that you can hire fighters for money who will go wherever they’re told. The army is about discipline, order, and the necessity of following orders. It’s not simply a private business run by private individuals. There are certain tasks that private military companies can and must carry out. Yes, certainly, I believe that in the field of drones, the production and deployment of high-tech weaponry and reconnaissance, private military companies are indispensable. They are needed so that Ukraine can scale up its drone production. And we can only scale it up if, alongside military technologies, we supply ready-made services for training and the deployment of drones. For protection, for security, for monitoring of all kinds. This is significantly more expensive than the weaponry itself. And for this, private military companies are needed. For work abroad. Private military companies are also needed to organise high-quality recruitment. And so that those people who are doing military service in Ukraine can then be deployed in various other areas in other countries. Well, again, that is my position.
It is already June, and nothing has changed. Loud statements. I was waiting for clear terms of service so I could return, but we were misled again.
Friends, let us think realistically. You need to believe not what is promised, but what is actually happening. This will make life and understanding the reality we live in so much simpler. You will later thank yourselves, and your attitude toward this world will change. Please do not believe promises. You can trust only those plans that are confirmed every month, every week, by real steps. And when people promise a bright future in a year or two, these are people who do not calculate their steps. Chaos can be brought under control only through clearly planned, predictable, and consistent actions and deeds. If there are no actions and there are many promises, then there will be disappointment.
Up to what age do you accept people for service in the unit?
We accept people in accordance with Ukrainian law: service is allowed until the age of 60. But to get into the unit, first of all, of course, one must have a certain level of health, certain qualifications, willpower, and character. At the moment, I have a company, and everyone is constantly busy with something. The workload is fairly serious. In any position.
Let us raise money for foreigners. Open a fundraising jar.
Friends, I have already raised money for foreigners both through a foundation and through a fundraising jar. But we need systemic state decisions. How much longer can this go on? Why am I not opening a jar? If someone has the opportunity to help and transfer money, such people write to me. I give them the account details that are convenient for them. For some, it is convenient to transfer money to the foundation; for others, it is convenient to transfer it directly to the travel company that books tickets for us. I simply do not feel comfortable collecting money from taxpayers. The main payments people made through Monobank were 50, 100, or 500 hryvnias. One transfer costs at least 150,000 hryvnias. That is how it has to be calculated. We need to bring in thousands of fighters. So, in fact, the people who donated allowed us, at a difficult time, to bring in almost 700 fighters using private funds. Yes, that is an impressive figure, a large figure.
But if there were state funding from taxpayers, we could bring in many times more people in a single month.
That is why I am holding this broadcast and asking for your support and assistance in spreading this information, so that we can finally somehow get through to state leaders and obtain systemic decisions on bringing in foreigners.
Foreign fighters are the right solution. It is much more advantageous. The foreigners we bring in have a different motivation; they are used to war. Here, they are treated properly, they receive good salaries that they cannot get in their own countries, and they receive training here. We have leverage over foreign fighters — changes need to be made to the contract. For example, if a person terminates the contract, they must reimburse the funds Ukraine spent on their transfer. If they refuse to take part in an assault, they must reimburse the costs.
What is needed are systemic decisions on people’s financial motivation, financial penalties, and liability for violations. As soon as the search begins for simple solutions that allow people to do nothing while something somehow happens by itself, we get the kind of failure and chaos that Ukraine has had for the fifth year when it comes to bringing in foreign fighters. For the fifth year, we have been talking extensively about this and developing this movement with negligible, simply negligible results. It is just words and window dressing, not results. That, unfortunately, is what is happening in our field of bringing in foreign fighters.
In any case, whether there is support or not, we will continue developing and scaling up the recruitment of foreigners in the 23rd Assault Regiment within the Khartiia Corps. So I thank everyone for their support, everyone who assists with this activity, everyone who helps us, and everyone who contacts me privately after my posts and provides assistance. This allows us to increase both the number of fighters and the number of combat missions that foreign assault troops carry out effectively. We will continue following this path. I am more confident than ever in our victory, and that together with you, with public opinion, and civil society, we will also correct our internal problems in the state. Thank you for your support, for your kind words, for your trust, and glory to Ukraine!
